Ep. 110 - Shane Sowden - Building Young Leaders

A championship is fun, but it is a terrible finish line. Coach Shane Sowden unpacks what actually changes teams and organizations: not louder speeches, but clearer values, healthier rhythms, and leadership you can trust day after day.

We get practical about leadership development and mental health, especially for men who carry pressure in silence. Shane shares why “invest in yourself” is not selfish; it is stewardship: Scripture, prayer, fitness, and honest self-awareness that keeps burnout from setting the agenda. 

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Transcript

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Welcome And Meet Shane Soudon

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to the Leader Impact Podcast. We are a community of leaders with a network in over 350 cities around the world dedicated to optimizing our personal, professional, and spiritual lives to have impact. This show is where we have a chance to listen and engage with leaders who are living this out. We love talking with leaders, so if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions to make this show even better, please let us know. The best way to stay connected in Canada is through our newsletter at leaderimpact.ca or on social at LeaderImpact. And if you're listening from outside of Canada, check out our website at leaderimpact.com. I'm your host, Lisa Peters, and our guest today is Shane Soudon. Shane is the head is the head coach of the men's basketball team at Briar Crest College in Saskatchewan, where he recently led the program to its first ever ACAC championship and was named ACAC Coach of the Year. A former Division I baseball pitcher and Team Canada national junior team member, Shane is passionate about leadership, faith, and developing people. He holds a master's degree in leadership, teaches coaching at the college level, and co-hosts the Grit and Growth podcast. Shane is also the co-author of the book Significance Over Success, Helping Leaders Pursue Impact Beyond Achievement. He lives in Carnport, Saskatchewan with his wife Amanda and their three sons, Caleb, McLean, and Hudson. Welcome to the show, Shane.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Hey, thanks, Lisa. Really excited to be on.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Oh, it is great to have you. It's funny when I I'm like, are you one of those athlete athletes? You did it all. Like you coach basketball, but you are a um Division I, you went to college for baseball. You like Canada's national junior team member. You're one of those athletes.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Well, yeah, no, I think it's kind of a lost art. Uh I think you and I come from the gym more of a generation of multi-sport athletes where you just you play the sport of the season. Yeah. When the weather changes, you change the sport. And so uh yeah, played a variety of sports growing up.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yeah. I remember Wayne Gretzky talking about that. Like Wayne Gretzky was that kid who hung up his his skates for a time because that was that's what you did. And he's older than us, I think.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Well, Wayne is is famous for saying baseball was his first love. He wanted to be a professional baseball player, and who knows, he was such a good athlete, he might have been able to do that. Um but you know, we we know how that story went. But uh I think yeah, those cross-disciplines are so important in in developing all those different skills and mentalities that I think made him successful.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah. I think we forget sometimes the journeys we take are to get us to where we are today. And, you know, people may have looked and thought, he's a division one baseball player. Or, you know, you're a now you're a basketball coach. What happened? It's not that what happened. It's that was my journey. So I am excited to hear more about your professional journey and how you got to where you are today. And really it's we want to hear those pivotal, that pivotal moment that got you where you are today. So we'd love to hear more.

From Multi Sport Athlete To Coach

SPEAKER_01 2:58

For sure. You know, my you know, it goes back in 11th grade. I remember my dad asking me all of a sudden as we were starting to look at post-secondary options, saying, Hey, we've never talked about this, but what do you want to do for your like what do you want to be when you grow up, basically? And I I paused and I hadn't thought about it all very much. And after a few moments, I replied, I want to be a teacher or a pastor. And he just kind of looked at me and said, Okay, good. And that was about it, right? And so we started along the this path um towards that. And so coming out of high school, like we talked just pre-show a little bit, um, basketball, baseball, and volleyball were kind of my three big sports in in high school. And I had this dream I wanted to get paid to play a sport, throw a ball around, or shoot a ball, and uh had a very good, strong senior season and was recruited for both basketball and uh and baseball um down south. And so had the opportunity to go play Division I at a school called Northwestern State in Louisiana, uh at in the little town of Nackadish, about the same size as Swift Current. And that's where my journey started. So played, uh I was there for three years and then transferred to University of Central Missouri, uh a Division II school uh after three years. And you know, my coaching journey began. I knew I always wanted to coach and I wanted to impact others. And I had great examples in high school of coaches who did that. I was like, man, I want to do what they do. And so uh when I was in my last semester in Missouri, I got an email from uh not one of my old teachers, but somebody that I knew who was a teacher at a different high school, Moosha, and said, Hey, I hear you're moving back to Moosha. I had recently got engaged and my wife was attending the University of Saskatchewan and she's a nurse. And I was moving back to Saskatchewan in December. And the teacher emailed me and asked, Hey, we need basketball coaches. And nobody had asked me to volunteer for anything. I was gonna move back and start subbing and look for a job. And I just said, Yeah, let's do it. Um, had no clue what I was getting into. And within, so I got back in December, started going to practices with this team in Moose Jaw. I was the assistant coach. Within two weeks, I became the head coach because the assistant coach simply just stopped showing up.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Um, yeah, he just all of a sudden I'd show up to practice and he wasn't there. And so it just turned out I took over the team for the remaining two and a half, three months. And so that was my my introduction to coaching. Uh, I had no clue what I was doing, not a hot clue. Um, I thought I knew what I was doing. I thought I knew everything, and that, you know, I was like, these kids will just pick up where I left off five years earlier when I was in high school, and that just that just wasn't the case. And so uh so my my my professional journey was uh I was a subsuit teacher for a couple seasons, a couple years, and then I got a full-time teaching position out at Carnport in the high school. Uh for two years I was the athletic director and and varsity boys head coach. And then from there, my second year there, we had a pretty we had a good season, and our women's basketball team in the college. So if you don't know Briarcrest College, it has a seminary, a college, and a high school. And so I was working in the high school, and the athletic director in the college was kind of watching from afar and said, Hey, I like what you're doing. We have an open vacancy for the women's basketball program. Would you be interested? I was 28 years old, never thought about coaching college. And I jumped at the opportunity after a couple weeks, said, Yeah, I want to do this. And so for four years, I worked in the high school and coaching at the college level. And so when I started that job, my wife and I had no kids. And by the time I was done four years later, we had three. And so life, I know life had radically changed. So between 28 and 32, family changed. And so life just got busy. It was a little bit too much to be taking taking on two jobs at the time. So I resigned and uh focused on just being in the high school for the next for the next seven years. Moved back to the high school, coached volleyball, coached track, coached basketball. Um, and after three years, they asked me to be the vice principal. So then I was vice principal for four years from 2015 to 2018. And uh in that last that fourth year, I was coaching the boys' basketball team again at Caronport High School is what it was called at the time. And we had a really good year. But something started stirring inside me like, I want to do something different. Um, I'm good at my job, I I enjoy the school, I enjoy my colleagues, but I feel like the Lord's calling me into something else where I want to impact young men more intentionally and devote my my whole time to that. And at the time, the men's basketball program was going through a transition season uh into uh, yeah, they needed they needed a coach. They had an interim coach for the year before, and so it was vacant. And so without really telling anybody, anybody, talk to my wife about it, is it you know, it's a it's a little bit of a transition, especially in Canada, when you go from being a vice principal to a college basketball coach, the pay scale is quite a bit different. And so you gotta have some uh strategic, crucial conversations. And you know, I was finishing up my master's degree at the time and just you know, through a variety of circumstances, applied, didn't again didn't really tell anybody. I think it surprised a lot of people at the school. And um, yeah, got the job. And so took over a program that was 0-24 the year before. Uh, and then you know, fast forward seven years later, we're winning an ACAC championship. And so I just could have never imagined the journey that that was gonna take me and some others on. And so I've been in that role now for the last eight years. Uh, it's the longest I've stayed in a position in my life. Uh-huh. So uh that was kind of a promise I made to our AD when they hired me. And during that time, I was also kind of jumped into the entrepreneurial space in 2019. A friend and I opened up an indoor baseball training facility uh because I was already coaching baseball on the side with my sons. And we ran that for five years and we sold that almost just a year to today. About a year ago, we sold that business and moved on. So got to get got into that space of got the entrepreneurial itch a little bit and learned uh, you know, that's uh it was it was a fun experience, it was a successful experience, but yeah, you get you learn so many things that you you you have no clue when you dive into that space. And so it's been nice for the last year to be able to focus on uh coaching my team. Um, you know, we wrote the book and uh doing this podcast with Justin Simpkins uh has been a lot of fun, especially over the last couple of years and on that journey. So that's the that's the professional journey, and who knows? I'm 47, who knows what's next? We'll

Building Briarcrest And A Bigger Mission

SPEAKER_01 9:40

see.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Uh I want you to share a little bit about uh and quickly the college you are at, um, because you said it was a seminary, and I wonder if some people don't realize you uh, and I'm not sure what the word is like, you're a registered college, your your degrees count, is what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

So I just want to be yeah, yeah, Briarcrest College is a is a it's a Christian college with a graduate school. Um, you know, from a theological perspective, it's a seminary. And we are we're not called a university, but we have university degrees that are accredited in Canada and Saskatchewan. And so um, yeah, they are legitimate professional degrees. It's not a diploma.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Um, it's uh they are recognized nationally and you know across North America. So you can get professional degrees in business, psychology, English, uh, history, all sorts of things. Um, and you know, and then what we do really, really well is a theological aspect. And so I love the fact that you can get professional degrees from a biblical worldview, yeah, uh, which is for me, it's huge. I did my leadership, uh my master's in leadership here, and loved every course. Wow, loved the readings, enjoyed it. It impacted every aspect of my my coaching, my marriage, my parenting, my relationships, all sorts of things. Uh, it's extremely applicable to so many life scenarios. And so, yeah, that's my plug for Briarcrest College and Seminary. And uh they have a revamped, you know, for your listeners, they have a revamped leaders, uh leadership master's degree, but it's only 42 hours now, and it combines uh theological training systems and uh leadership. So it's it's a strong, very applicable degree. So yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

I just wrote that down. I'm like masters and leadership, 42. I I love it. Um I also just want to go back the very first thing you said, your dad asked you, uh, you know, and when when you were, because you're 47, so you know, we don't need to tell anybody when you when this was in the early 90s. Um your dad said to you, What do you want to be? And you said a teacher or a pastor. Yeah. Parents today, I wonder, are looking at their kids going, You're really good at ball. That's you're gonna be NHL, you're gonna be NBA, you're you know, versus I want to be a teacher or a pastor. Okay. And here you are today, really. You know, you you're pastoring a basketball team. I think like that that's what I hear from you is you're doing everything you said at 17.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Well, it's it's funny, you know, my wife has said the exact same thing because there's been there's been times I actually went down the road of looking into the Lord's economy to the pastorate uh years ago. And my wife, you know, very clearly, I'll say, um, you know, spoke some words of wisdom. She's like, you're already getting to do the things that a pastor gets to do with your program and your team without a lot of the you know, so-called headaches or challenges that maybe a pastor might face in any given situation. You know, and she's and she's right, you know, there's always still that pull to like, you know, the church and all that kind of stuff. But at the same time, in what context do I get to to spend anywhere from usually three to five full school years mentoring, discipling, teaching, yeah, growing, working towards a shared goal together with usually up to 17 to 20 young men that are 18 to 25. Yeah. Uh it's a pretty special place to be able to impact that age, that men, because I'm a big believer. You get the men, you're gonna get the women and the children, and they have such an imp influence in their homes, their communities, their workplaces. And we get to intentionally do that. And we want to win basketball games. Like, don't get me wrong. I'm as competitive as the next guy wake up in the morning thinking about practice plans and all that sorts of stuff. But all that stuff is empty if these guys aren't becoming at least becoming stronger in their faith or or growing in their knowledge of Jesus and learning to trust him, and then becoming committed husbands and engaged fathers. Like that's I think one of the biggest issues in the world is we is fatherlessness. And if we could eradicate that, I think it would fix a large majority of the issues we have. So that's what we're trying to do here, and that's our focus. Um, and if we can win some basketball games, which we have, especially the last three years, um, that's just the bonus.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Yeah. Well, your wife was that was great advice because in my I grew up thinking that a you could only pastor a church and you had to be the the priest, the pastor, whatever it is. Um, and I realize we can pastor at home, at work, you know, our community groups. So thank you for saying that. And to our listeners, I think we just we needed to hear

Invest In Yourself And Lead Authentically

SPEAKER_00 14:20

that. Um we want to talk a little bit about your best principles of success and if you have a story that you can share with that.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

You know, I'll give I'll give I'll give you two. The first one is is invest in yourself. And something I learned a few years ago, you know, especially when I was burnt out, I was overweight, unhealthy, and stressed, and probably maybe even a little bit depressed. And we don't like to talk about mental health, especially with men a lot of times. I think there's a way more freedom to talk about that now, but I still think it's a little bit taboo among men. So um a number of years years ago, I was challenged to take care of myself physically, uh, emotionally, and spiritually, and and then how that affected me professionally. And so again, I became a teacher and uh and a coach because you want to serve others, but there's a you can be burnt out doing that, and you it quickly your your personal disciplines can can fall by the wayside. And so I have just found when I prioritize myself through scripture, prayer, working out, um, and taking care of myself that way, that all of a sudden my cup, my cups are overflowing to the point where now I can serve effectively and model that. Right. And so uh that you know that's the first thing is invest in yourself. And then along that whole investing in yourself, I hired a I hired a coach back in 2018, his name is JP Nurvin of uh Thrive on Challenge, um TOC coach, author, friend, and he mentored me for five years as I transitioned from being a vice principal to a college coach, and he was instrumental of just investing in myself and and every week on a call for an hour, uh uh an invested third party who can just give me the truth and guide me, and I can ask questions like invest yourself, whether it's a trainer, a business coach, a trip, whatever it is. It's worth it. Um, so that's my plug for that. Uh the second one is know yourself and like be yourself. For 20 years, just posted this on share this on LinkedIn because I came across a uh a coach talking about this, an author, and like and he's encouraging coaches to be yourself, know know your values and then be relentless in living those out day to day with whoever you're in charge of leading. For for 20 years, I was kind of like this yo-yo between this is who I am, and then looking at the most successful coaches from a winning standpoint in my profession and trying to be them. And it wasn't until four seasons ago I came to almost like to the end of my rope of just okay, be yourself. And I was trying to be somebody else, and it was one of the worst seasons of my coaching career. And near the end of the season, I made a pivot and just kind of had a meeting with my guys and said, Okay, guys, I'm I apologize. I've been this is how I've been operating, and I'm not gonna operate like this anymore. Here's my values, here's how I'm gonna show up to practice, here's how I'm gonna coach you, this is how I'm gonna communicate with you. I laid it all out for them and I said, if you don't like it, respectfully, you have a decision in a few weeks, you can leave the program. That's totally up to you. Yeah, but this is how this program's gonna be run, this is how I'm gonna show up every day, and I'm gonna be relentless in showing up because that's where I'm most confident. And for the most part, you could see this collective sigh from my team of relief. They're like, thank you. And we kind of took over for the next three years. Like we just the program started moving up because now we were crystal clear on what kind of coach are we coming to play for? And then that attracted those types of players to the point where we became a united front for the next few years and became really, really strong because they're like, hey, we just know how coach is gonna show up. Are there areas you can still get improved improved on? Yes. But like I just got comfortable being in my own skin and not trying to be somebody else uh, you know, every day. And so that it seems simple, but in the moment it's really hard because you got to do the work and be like, hey, who am I and what's really important to me? And then show up every day, you know, for it sounds cheesy, but like your authentic self. Um, but if you don't do that work, you're living somebody else's values, and that just becomes draining.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Yeah. Um, commenting on your two just invest in yourself, and then you talked about a coach. And I think, you know, we both grew up probably very athletic. I always had a coach. And then somehow we become adults and we're like, I can do it, you know. Yeah. So I agree on the coach. If you're involved in something, if it's training or if it's leadership, like we all need coaches. And then your second one, you talked a little bit about knowing yourself and being yourself, and that that a moment that you admit that it's like, you know what, I need to be, I'm not the person I want to be. This is the person I'm gonna be, this is who I'm gonna show up, this is how I'm gonna operate. There's got to be a feeling of, did you ever feel like I because my next question is about the mistakes and those failures? Like when you when you said a comment like that, like how did you feel? Like, I I need to show up differently, and this is what's this is what it's gonna be because I'm I'm not I'm not my true self. What was that moment like when when you so was it a hard moment?

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Clarity and freedom.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Like to tell you the truth, and it because when you get clear on your values and then how you're gonna show up every day, it helps you make decisions better. And so now it's it, you know, if a player challenges you, or if you're trying to make a decision, okay, should we do this or should we do that? You come back to your values, you're like, no, this is how we operate, and then you're being transparent, you're being consistent, and that's something, at least with my my student athletes, they really appreciate. Okay, we know what to expect. Coach is gonna show up in this way. Um, so when so when I have a player who wants to operate outside of that, that's totally fine. But we're gonna have a conversation, be like, that's great. And can we move on united despite of that? If not, it's okay. We love you, you're still part of this family, and you have the decision to be a part of this if you don't want to. Um, but it's like a guy, it's a guiding light, and then just freedom to be yourself, like I don't know, so tiring trying to be somebody else. And again, my mentor JP Nurban back in the day, when he can he encouraged me to start writing, you know, and then it's funny a few years later, Justin and I put out the book. It's terrifying. It's terrifying to put yourself out there, whether it's on social media or to share an article or to be on a podcast and share this stuff. But he he he told me once he was like, Shane, because I I had all these things written, but I hadn't shared any of it. He said, Shane, you have there's more people that will connect with your story than say, like Mike Cheshevsky, who was at the time Duke's um head coach, men's basketball, and the winningest coach in NCAA history, that more people will identify with you when you're transparent and vulnerable, and you can impact those people more than he can, because people don't most people don't get to be what he what what he is, and they can't understand making $10 million a year to coach, but they can relate with you. So like you have a story worth sharing. And you know, I think our failures and often oftentimes can become our suit the the lessons we learn through our failures can be our become our superpower. And uh that's kind of stuck with me too. And so uh the amount of people that have messaged me either through the book or some articles I wrote throughout the years on all sorts of issues, hey, we didn't realize you went through that, or thank you for sharing that. We thought oh, they just see the championship or they see the wins or they see the Division one athlete is like, oh my goodness, through that, there's so many doubts, challenges, like difficult times that we all go through, but for some reason we're scared to share them. And so I think just uh yeah, freedom and clarity were were were huge. And I wish I would have come to that realization a lot earlier.

unknown 22:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yeah, we do that.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

I'm older than you, and I and it's I feel way more freedom and clarity now. And I try to, when I in my leadership groups, I try to I look specifically at people and say, I want you to know that I felt that way. And this is what I wished I would, you know, I don't regret, and I can give my guidance to you or you know, leadership. So um you seem to have you you talked a little bit about you know the mistakes and failures. I'm wondering if you you seemed to be a wealth of knowledge and willing to share to be vulnerable. Did you have any others uh any failures or mistakes that you could any other ones you could share and maybe what you learned from

The Blowup That Changed His Coaching

SPEAKER_00 22:55

it?

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Could write a whole we could write a whole book on this. Um that's what makes you a great leader though. Yeah, learning. Well, and not being afraid of that, right? Yeah. So for me, the the the instance that stands out to me, if I just you know to tell a story of probably one of my aha moments as a coach. And again, I'd coached the women's program at Briarcrest, resigned when I was 32, just burnt out, and feeling a sense of failure there. So taking over that program, they it was it was in a bad spot. And so over the course of four years, recruiting got a lot better. We were way more competitive, we didn't win a ton of games, but like financially, culturally, um, skill-wise, like compet like everything was better after four years. So I felt good. Hey, I took something that was broken and made something a lot better to the point now where I'm proud to say like the women's program at our school is very strong, very competitive, has had a lot of success over the last few years. And I feel in many ways almost like I was part of starting that resurrection. But at the time, felt a lot of shame and disappointment and like a failure after that. Um, because I didn't really want to resign, but I was so burnt out, and for my family, I needed to be more present uh and not consumed. And so um the whole started reading a bunch of books on transformational coaching, and started to realize that for the most part, a lot of my coaches, like my coaches cared for me growing, like they you could tell they cared, but there's a lot of transactional moments through yelling, punishment, shaming, those sorts of things. I can look back on numerous examples of that, and I thought that was the way. It's like I can love my players and care about who they're becoming, but when they don't meet the standard, what has been modeled for me is I'm gonna call you out, I'm gonna yell at you, I'm gonna scream, I'm gonna shame you, that sort of thing. Basically throw a hissy fit to get you to try and act the way I want you to act. And did that happen a lot? No, but it still happened. And so I started reading all these books like Inside Out by Coach Joe Joe Ehrman, was reading a bunch of stuff by Jim Lore uh Lore, I can't remember how to say his name. Anyways, uh, like all these, I was doing my master's degree. It's like, yeah, I'm this transformational coach. I I kind of was, not really, I didn't really know what that meant. And so back in 2015, I was coaching our our varsity boys basketball team in the high school, and we had a we had a we had a good young team, and I was excited because we hadn't been good for very long. But all of a sudden, we got these four or five freshmen who moved up, and now they're sophomores. So we're starting four sophomores, and you can just kind of see, okay, the next few, we're gonna take some lumps because we're young, but in a few years we're gonna be pretty good. We did. But that first year, we're in practice, we're like two weeks into the season, we're in practice and we're doing this drill, and we like the the drill's terrible. We can't, we're not executing it all. It's it's I'm getting and I'm getting frustrated. And we stop the drill, we start again, but in the moment, long story short, I erupt. I I lose my I'm a big guy, I'm 6'3, 6'4. At the time I was way overweight, just this big, angry in the moment, I slam the ball, it hits the ceiling, I start yelling and screaming for like a minute. I go on this crazy rant. The college team, whoever was on the other side, could hear me. Like, you could just see their practice stop because who's losing their lid on the other side? And uh, in that moment, I can just see their faces right now, these 15, and 16, and 17-year-old boys looking at me just with like, what is going on right now? And my two assistant coaches couldn't look me in the eye. They're kind of like walking around the gym with their heads down, and in that moment, I just felt like embarrassment and shame for myself. And so we tried to move on with practice, nothing like it was just terrible. So I didn't practice early. I go home, I walk in the front door, and right away my wife sees, she's like, What happened? I guess I don't, I guess I can't hide my emotions very good sometimes. And I I told her what happened. I said, I said, something has to change. I can't I can't operate like this anymore. I say I'm a transformational coach, and I just was totally transactional and a terrible example, and all these things. And so um that night made, I don't think I slept very well that last night that night. Uh the next day we called a meeting, meet in this classroom, and uh I made a promise to all those boys, and again, most of them are in grade 10 and 11, so I was gonna be with them for another season, at least, most of them. And I said, Okay, everything's changing. I said, I'm no longer gonna yell at you. I'm no, I'm not gonna shame you, I'm not gonna punch lockers, I'm not gonna go crazy. I said, This is gonna be my demeanor. We're gonna have here's our standard. If you don't meet the standard, you will just sit. That's it. I said, no shaming, no, you know, and all the other that was basically the the conversation. I still remember that. I remember the classroom and some of the boys, because again, we had a good relationship. This is like I wasn't some crazed lunatic coach. They started laughing at me, they started giggling, and and but and I knew why, because they were like, Yeah, sure, coach, like you've been our coach for the last year and a half. We like playing for you, but yeah, you're still gonna flip out from time to time. And that's you know, but that's what they'd have modeled for them. They're like, Oh, this is just what this happens and we move on. I said, No, this is not okay for a grown man to act this way over a high school basketball game. I'm not anyway. So, you know, long story short, I had the my words needed to, my actions needed to match my words, and we did. And it took them a little while to buy in. Fast forward two years later, one of my players, we had a we had a really good year. Uh, and this is one of those kids who were in grade 10 starting. He stopped by my office in the high school. He said, Hey coach, remember um when you had that meeting with us two years ago? I said, Yep. He said, None of us believe you. He said, We thought, like, nah, this isn't happening. He said, Hey, but you did it. And we bought in, and you can see it took it took about two years for it to come to fruition 100%. But all of a sudden, these guys bought in and they saw they saw they saw it, and so it wasn't a quick turnaround, like it was a commitment for two years. But then I saw the power of the power of that and the impact it had on those guys. Yeah, and quite honestly, the last few weeks of that last season when those kids were in grade 12, I didn't have to do a whole lot about coaching, they were coaching themselves because everything we had focused on for the last two years. We came into a timeout one game near the end of that season. Timeout, whatever. We come in, I start to go in the huddle, and one of the seniors says, Hey coach, we got this. I was like, What? Okay. So I sat down, sat by two assistant coaches, and they ran the timeout, and it was everything I was gonna say. And I looked at my assistant coaches as they went back on the floor, I said, Okay, that was the aha, like we got this. Like we're in a good, and we finished, we we did really well to end the season, went the provincials, all that kind of stuff. And so, like, that is a clarifying moment for me uh in my coaching journey, and I've tried to um stick to that uh ever since.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Yeah. And sometimes we don't. Um I I love the story that you know, um, you go in and you're gonna make the change. You tell them and they're like, yeah, coach, and you know, two years later they come back and he said, We laughed at you. I think we think we're gonna change, and it takes time, and I people need to grant themselves grace that when they say they're gonna change, a diet, and then you slip up, just go back. Like it's okay. We we all slip up. And so, but to have you know, we got we gotta stick with the majority of it, and mistakes will still happen. Um, I also loved when the players that don't buy in, and you just sit them. You don't need to yell at them, you don't need to shame them. And in leadership, it's like, you know what, just sit, you know, just have a seat and we'll continue. That's I would beat myself up in that moment and go, I can do better. Like I I didn't get shamed, I'm just sitting. But uh if you were my coach, or in leadership, I I would feel it. Like I can put that self, I can put that on myself.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Well, I think one of the most yeah, one of the most powerful sentences is in in response when you're giving feedback is like you've lost the the privilege of participating right now.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

And they see their they see their teammates out there battling or in your business or whatever. It's just like you're not meeting the standard. You know what? And that's that's just your choice. And this is what this is being a part of this is. And usually they self-correct.

unknown 31:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Right? Because they don't want to be on the outside looking in. And then you don't need to demean or shame. And I just have a really hard like something that's convicted me over the last number of years is we we have these we have the saying like, well, I'm I'm a I'm a tough coach. I'm gonna coach tough. I need to be able to coach you tough sometimes. Coaching tough is just telling the truth. Tell the truth. Just can you be fully transparent with your players and tell the truth and have a crucial conversation.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

That doesn't need to be with an angry tone. It can be it can be intense, but if you're being sarcastic and taking jabs, and this happens if you're the boss and a leader of a corporation or a business, or you're a coach or a teacher or a parent, um, you can be honest without having to be demeaning and shameful. And I find we we cross that line too many times as leaders, is we think being tough is oh, I need to you're kind of tearing them down a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

But it's like you but are we're not supposed to call people out, we're supposed to call them up.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Like, who are they becoming? Like that I see the best in you. That's our as leaders and coaches. We're trying to get them from A to B. This is where I see you should be, and you're not there yet, and you're kind of getting your own way, so you've lost the opportunity to participate. And we don't need to make them feel bad about themselves. They already, I don't know about you, I already feel bad about myself enough.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

And I'm self-critical. And we need more people seeing the best in others, like, hey, I see what you can be.

unknown 33:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Um, and and pulling them, and sometimes we gotta pull them towards that. And so I see that's our role as uh as a leader and a coach. And um, again, it took me, I thought I was doing that by yelling and screaming sometimes and being sarcastically funny. No.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

Um, sarcastically funny. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

This is this is just a leadership lesson for Lisa. Thank you. My podcast needs to change. Um, so we want to talk about uh a little bit about Leader Impact.

Faith As A Daily Leadership Lifeline

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Our goal is to um is to grow professionally, personally, spiritually, uh for for increasing impact. So I'm wondering if you're willing to share an example of how the spiritual makes a practical difference in your life as a leader.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

It it's everything. Um one of my favorite parts of the day, if not the favorite, is waking up, turning on the coffee, and opening up my Bible. Um, you know, uh almost every day of the year, not every day, but a good 99% of the year, that's the first thing I do in the morning. Um being shaped by the scriptures. And so um we I was at a club tournament with my son a few weeks ago in Saskatoon, and our schedule, it was just crazy, we had early morning stuff, all the sorts of things. And so, for whatever lame excuse reason, I didn't get into my Bible on the Saturday and the Sunday. It was kind of dumb. And it was still a good weekend. Something felt off. It just, it just, I was like, oh, and then you know, Monday I sit down in my chair and I open up to my Bible reading plan that I do with a group of men, and you read a few chapters sipping on coffee, like, Lord, my goodness, like why? Like, how can I have not just found five minutes just to engage through your word? And so that's the whole thing like about investing in yourself. Um it's it's my lifeline, it's without it, I feel off. I don't feel equipped to to jump into the day mentally, I don't feel as mentally sharp. Um but it's just a constant reminder, you know, that I'm I'm human and I and I one of my biggest prayers is is Lord, I need you. You know, help me to be obedient, help me to want you more, help me to love your word, help me to trust it, help me to believe your promises continuously, because what we feed ourselves through what we read, watch, listen, I think is huge and and and grossly overlooked these days in a in a information society. We have more information than we ever had in our life. And yet, to take those moments to to open the scriptures, get on my knees, surrender whatever's on my mind that day to the Lord, pray for the people around me, pray for the school, pray for my team, whatever it is, and just surrender those things to the Lord. Um and then it helps me sleep at night that I'm not in control. And as a I I want to be in control. Yes, right? But hey, Lord, this is your team. One of the probably the best decisions I ever made was in 2018 when I inherited the men's program, the the coach before handed over uh an Excel spreadsheet with 30 recruit names on it with all their information. And before I started contacting any of these potential players, I just sat in my office. It was a mess because I'm in the gym, like, okay, I'm moving to this place, it's just all that whatever. And I'm looking at this list, okay. Lord, this is your team. I'm gonna recruit as hard as I possibly can. I'm gonna fundraise as possibly as hard as I can, and we're gonna try and win as many games as we can. This is your team, and bring the players here that need to be here, not just for basketball, but to be on this campus in a place that cares about you and your word. And that has let me kind of not relax, but take a backseat when I'm stressed about recruiting, or players like hey, no God, you got this. And I've had some players show up on campus here that I've recruited, I'm like, I have no idea how I got you. You have better offers elsewhere, but God had different plans. And then um, so to to trust, to trust in that, you know, it's the whole thing of camera what verse it is, but it's like acknowledge the Lord in all your ways, and He will make pay make straight your paths. It's like every day just trying to surrender that. And I don't know. I I think I'm a good leader, but um I gotta get out of the way. Yeah. Like I just I just have to, um, that sort of thing. So yeah, it's it's it's it's everything. And then to have a group of people around you, like who are your Foxhole friends? I've got a group of I got a group of buddies that I could call it three, like who are your three AM friends? I got a group of those guys where if if I'm struggling, hey guys, I need prayer here. You know, we had a we had a text thread going today, I had a buddy going through a thing, and we're all given advice and prayer, and it's just you just need you need that. Um or else you just especially as a coach, you you can get stranded on an island and it's terrible. So yeah, it's uh it's everything. I don't I don't I don't know how if you call yourself a Christian or a follower of Jesus, how can you not be tapping into the source daily? Right. I just I just anyways, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

Yeah, um it's I I always find it funny when you go to the Bible and you know, so yeah, yesterday morning I was reading Isaiah 46, and it was just you know, letting go of the control. Let God's got it. Yeah. So I'm reading about this, and so I'm you know, then I journal and I'm like, let go, let God. That's since one of my first podcasts, uh, one of my guests said it to me, I'm let go, let God. I'm gonna let go of control. I go to film my talk show that day, and my producer is a little behind, and I try to take control. And like, I just read this, just prayed on it, you know, let go of the control. And then I go and I and all all I honestly wanted to do was help out. Like I just wanted to help him. I I saw that he was falling behind, and I thought I was helping, um, but I could see him, you know, not appreciating my help. Because I tried to take control.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Yeah. Well, how and how many and how many times do we like even when we're praying, we think we got all the advice that God needs to hear. But even when we're praying, and sometimes it's just, you know, to stop and listen.

unknown 40:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

You know, and he says, like, make your petitions, give all your anxieties to him, give him all those things. And sometimes, you know, I think I have some pretty good ideas of how those prayers should be answered. But then to sit back and give it to him like, oh yeah, but you're God.

unknown 40:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

You're like you're you're the you're the guy. Yeah, you know, and so being able to sit in that and and trust that, it's it's hard, but it's also a pretty sweet place to spend some time in.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Yeah. And I think reflecting back, and I think you've had many instances in your life where um, you know, when you're in it, it's so hard and you feel the shame. But when you look back five years and you look back at that incident, you know, hindsight, you're like, that was a moment. That was a good moment. I needed to be there. But when you're in, and I call it in the suck, um sucks. But looking back, you're like, that was a moment I needed to live. I needed, I needed that journey to be here today.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

It's just a power, yeah. There's a powerful video on YouTube about Kobe Bryant talking about failure. And I showed it in my in my coaching class this year, and I had 33 students, 32 of them were student athletes, which was really cool. I got to get to know a bunch of the other student athletes from the other teams. And showing them that video, it was strange because you could almost see Kobe Bryant doesn't believe in failure. He's like, there's no such thing. I was like, huh? But we def I think the majority of us, we almost have we define ourselves by our failures.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

And he's like, no, this is just an opportunity for me to get better.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

You know, I I missed the game-winning shot yesterday. I had this turnover, I had a terrible stat line, we lost the game, we didn't win the championship, I didn't get the MVP, whatever it is. He's like, this is he's like, this is just me getting information on how to be better. So and so reframing that mental framework within, as a coach, I need to model that for my players because guess what? Basketball is a messy game. I've never seen the perfect basketball game where there's no turnovers, no missed shots. I've never seen that. And so, you know, having the mental resiliency to start thinking about what's next, and then okay, Lord, use this for your glory. Not just our quite honestly, our like our our wins and our losses, our successes. How is your name magnified? How's this pointing to you? Let me get out of the way, boast only in the Lord, that sort of thing. Um, but then I failed. So-called fail. But no, it I just I'm just learning. I can be better next time. And so that that's really hard though, because you gotta show you gotta preach yourself preaching the gospel to yourself is so hard. But like to preach the gospel to yourselves on a daily basis, I think is is is massive. We never stop learning the gospel, we never under stop understanding the depths of the gospel, um, of that extravagant grace towards us and to operate from that rather than trying to earn it. That's what sets Christianity apart from everything else is grace. And so, um, yeah, we could talk about that forever. That's a whole other episode.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

I love it. Um, I remember I don't I ran in politics and I lost. And I remember as I was running, I did everything. God lined up people in my life, the best people in my life, and I'm like, this is good. I did something every day for the win and I lost. And I remember saying to my, and I and I think this was right before I lost, someone saying, you know, oh, it could have been after I lost. Someone said, You win or you learn. And I learned a lot. I learned about the people that surround me. I learned, you know, I met so many people, but I did lose, but I learned. And I've I've always taken that experience. And so now my phrase is you win or you learn. There's no, you know, you don't lose. You learn from your feelings. As Kobe Bryant, you don't fail. I'm going to look up that video. So we're on to our last two questions. And

Legacy Through Husbands And Fathers

SPEAKER_00 44:06

we really want to talk about lasting impact because that's what leader impact is about, is having leaders who have a lasting impact. So as you continue to move through your life in your own journey, have you considered what you want your faith legacy to be when you leave this world?

SPEAKER_01 44:21

You know, there's this song by Casting Crowns called Only Jesus. And I'll be honest, it's not my type of music, but the lyrics for it are phenomenal. And it's talking about legacy. And it's talking about all these examples of chasing success and leaving a legacy so that people remember your name. And you know what? A lot of that can be done in a way that makes much of others, right? That serves others. Um, but the song talks about the only thing I want people to remember when they think about me is Jesus. And I have by no means attained that yet. Um, but the older I get, that's all I want. And so again, my my friend JP Nurvin, um, I really encourage your readers to look up his or your listeners to look up his books and look them up online. He has a podcast too called Coaching Culture. He's he's he's phenomenal. But um he often he often was talking to me about um you like why does Briar Cress Men's like why do you do what you do? And he's like, you need to have like a vision statement and a purpose, and all that. And I was like, I know I do. I took a master's degree on this, I don't know what it is, and it would tick me off for years, and him and I would all almost kind of like argue about it. And four years ago, through an aha again, almost like a divine appointment, um worked with uh a coach from Indiana Wesleyan University, and uh his name is Greg Tonnegle. And JP set up, he's like, Yeah, I'm gonna set up a meeting with with you and Greg. He's been doing this thing called the father-son retreat for years, and he's one of the most successful coaches at the NAIA level in the States, and he is discipling his team through basketball. And you're having Division I athletes transfer to this NAIA school because of the transformational culture he's created. I jumped on a Zoom call with him four years ago, and it's just me taking copious notes for two hours straight. And I thought I was on this trans, like transformational journey of disciple my players and all this kind of stuff. I'm like, wow, I feel like a novice here. Um, not because of him, just because of seeing his heart posture. And so through the course of that conversation, something like a light bulb finally went on. It's like Briar Crest Men's basketball exists to build young men to or sorry, to equip young men to be committed husbands and engage fathers. That's it. We've added a few things to those like character integrity and in light of eternity, but it was like the biggest thing was husbands and fathers. And like, this is what we're gonna do, anyways. That's why I'm pumped, all that kind of stuff. I call JP like, yeah, that's great. You could have done that a few years ago, you dummy. Anyways, it's just you know, but the light bulb had to come on. Yeah, and so four years ago, we we did the first our first annual at the end of training camp in August, first annual father-son retreat. And that first year we only had five dads show up, and it's basically just two days with no phones of fun, food, and connection. And so year one, we had five dads, year two, we had nine, last year we had 13, and this year I'm hoping that we get about that many as well. So not all the dads can make it, but then we also have some like mentor dads, surrogate dads, whatever you want to call them, that are just they just want to connect with my guys. Like I've got guys on the team, their dads are not present or whatever for whatever reason. Um and so to see men get together and start developing relationships, so we do a service project, we do some competitions, we do some chapel stuff, we do all sorts of team stuff for just two days, and at this little tiny camp called Trossax Gospel Camp near Wayburn, Saskatchewan, and you know, for whatever reason, it's just a great weekend and of just connection. And now everything we do is through that lens is who are you becoming? Who are you becoming through the bath, the wins, the losses, the challenges, the workouts, the ups, the downs, the valleys, the the peaks, all that kind of stuff. And so um, yeah, getting that's you know, looking forward. I heard a coach say one time, he's like, um, my players are my living trophies. So I tell all my guys, I said, I'll know if I'm a success when I see you in 20 years from now. Like, what kind of husband are you? What kind of dad are you? Who are you in the community? You know, are you are you following Jesus more passionately? Those sorts of things. Because those are the things that I'm learning. They matter more than I'm glad we won an ACHC championship. We're we're this I think we're the smallest school in Canada and and and we won it. And it it's cool, but that's great, and it was really enjoyable, but I think I enjoyed it more because I had that perspective. This wasn't the end goal, um, and to appreciate that. So it's uh all those things would be empty if we didn't have that bigger, that bigger vision.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Yeah. I feel like you've just talked about everything joyful in your life as well. And that is my last question, because maybe there's something else, but what brings you the greatest joy?

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Uh the older I get, and again, I I I hope I have a lot of life left to live. It's it's those little things, like I said already. Um, the smell of the coffee in the morning, opening up the Bible, um, seeing my boys grow up, uh, growing closer with my wife. I think you know, marriage is hard, but it's awesome. Yeah. And we're just we're better friends and and and we compliment each other better now than we did when we got married, which is and that's not an easy thing.

SPEAKER_00 50:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Um, I think everybody goes through it. Uh, so I'm really thankful for that. And then on the top, on top of that, like you know, you can talk about successes and trips and all this kind of stuff. Really I just like seeing my my boys grow up and do harder things and become men of integrity and of faith. And I get a lot of joy in seeing my students, my players, my kids, whatever it is, you can just see when the light bulb goes on. Whether it's it's on the court, in the classroom, in life, of just like, oh, I get it now, and helping resource them and being part of their journey. Heck, even even guys I recruit that don't come here, I always tell them that hey, even if you don't come here, I'm just thankful I got to be part of your journey of helping you get to where you should go. Even if that's just a small I get to play a small role in that. And so yeah, getting to do that, those little things, the little pieces of connection of people just uh growing and figuring out. And then yeah, just the simple things. I don't know. It's uh yeah, that the the chair with the coffee and the scripture every morning is I love that time. It's very simple.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

I have the same time every morning. Hit the coffee, the Bible, and it's it's pretty good. It just makes me smile and to get up, get up at five with the birds. Actually, the birds are getting up at 2 in the morning, 2:30, but yeah, we'll leave them do that. Um, so before I end the podcast, and I have written so many notes, so many things I have

Significance Over Success And How To Connect

SPEAKER_00 51:58

to look up. I'm so excited. It's again leadership lessons for Lisa. Um, I want you to just briefly touch on significance over success. I'd love to hear just a little bit more about your book and then how can people connect or find you if they would like to?

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Yeah, Significance over Success was a book that Justin and I created. We released it back in December, and we just realized I've been on the Grit and Growth podcast with Justin for the last two years, and we started talking and just saying, hey, like we've had so many good guests, we've learned so many great things. Why don't we just share some of the main stuff that we've learned in written format in book? And so we we wrote the book based on the first 75 episodes we took you know from a lot of our guests, but then added our own voice to it. And the big thing was um in our Justin's a businessman, I'm a coach. We wanted people to start experiencing the same freedom we were having and like chasing significance of what really matters in life, thinking about eternity rather than just the medals and the wins and the money and all that kind of stuff. And so uh yeah, we released it back in December, and yeah, it's been great. We're working on an uh devotional to go along with the book now. So we're hoping that we'll release in the summer here, so people can look out for that. But yeah, you can get it on Amazon right now. Good. And to reach out to us, like we we put our emails and phone numbers in the back of the book for anybody that's interested in connecting with us. Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn. Uh, but yeah, the significance over success has been a fun, it's been a fun journey. And uh yeah, we we invite anybody to pick it up and and give us feedback. Um we'd love to connect with with people over it.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

Good. Well, Shane, thank you for spending the last almost an hour with us. Um I have loved every minute up. My cheeks hurt. I I love being here. I love having the conversation. I feel like it's just you and I, but I know other people are listening, and that's just some of the it's a highlight of my day. So thank you. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

Well, thank you, and it was really enjoyable. And you know, I mean it when people see the email in the back of the book, like reach out to us. Um we put it there for a reason. So it's uh yeah, we love talking about this stuff. So thank you for taking the time to talk with me today. Wow, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Well, to

Leader Impact Resources And Closing

SPEAKER_00 54:20

everyone who's listening, we want to thank you for joining us. If you're part of Leader Impact, you can always discuss or share this podcast with your group. And if you are not yet part of Leader Impact and would like to find out more and grow your leadership, find our podcast page and our website at leaderimpact.ca and check out our free leadership assessment. You can also check out groups available in Canada at LeaderImpact.ca. Or if you're listening from anywhere else in the world, check out LeaderImpact.com or get in touch with us by email. Info at Leaderimpact.ca, and we will connect you. And if you like this podcast, please leave us a comment, give us a rating or review. This will help other global leaders find our podcast. Thank you for engaging with us. And remember, impact starts with you!