LeaderImpact Podcast
LeaderImpact Podcast
Ep. 65 - Matthew Gould - Relationships, Ego and Leadership
What if your career trajectory was shaped by the power of relationships and personal responsibility? Matthew Gould, founder of More Co, uncovers his transformative journey from his first job to becoming a leading executive coach, mediator, and leadership facilitator. From landing his initial position right after a friend's resignation to discovering the telecom industry through a university friend's brother, Matt's career path is a testament to the pivotal role relationships play in professional success. He also opens up about his early misconceptions of success and how his definition of true leadership has evolved over time, highlighting how personal responsibility can unlock doors to incredible opportunities.
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Welcome to the Leader Impact Podcast. We are a community of leaders with a network in over 350 cities around the world, dedicated to optimizing our personal, professional and spiritual lives to have impact. This show is where we have a chance to listen and engage with leaders who are living this out. We love talking with leaders, so if you have any questions, comments or suggestions to make the show even better, please let us know. Best way to stay connected in Canada is through our newsletter at leaderimpact. ca or on social media at Leader Impact. If you're listening from outside of Canada, check out our website at leaderimpact. com.
Speaker 1:I'm your host, Lisa Peters, and our guest today is Matthew Gould, founder of More Co. He is an executive coach, mediator and passionate leadership facilitator. Matt currently works with new and existing leaders at all levels within organizations. He believes that everyone is a leader, regardless of their role, and that leadership begins with leading yourself. He also believes that relationships drive results and experiences and it is up to us to take responsibility accordingly. He collaborates with companies in a variety of industries, including tech, automotive, telecom, transportation, construction and law enforcement. His passion is leadership, communication, negotiation and navigating towards shared goals. Welcome to the show, Matt.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Lisa, Wow Interesting you hear my bio and think who?
Speaker 1:is that that's me? There was so much more I could have read.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot more to all of us, right, and I was introduced to you just through Instagram and your great Instagram there and listening to an episode with Dave Klassen, and I know there's a lot more to Dave and I know there's a lot more to you. So, yeah, thanks for introducing me and thanks for having me on the show. There's a lot more to all of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think I realized that after our first conversation. So I'm excited that you joined us and excited to share. So we always ask a little bit about our professional stories and how you got to where you are today. So I'm wondering if you can give us a couple of snapshots that were pivotal turning points in that journey.
Speaker 2:Yes, In hindsight they're easy to say what the pivotal moments were, and I would go back to my very first what I would call my first real job, and it was a relationship that made it pivotal. So I was living in the North Shore in Vancouver, Canada, and I wanted the next job, I wanted the upgraded job, and a friend of mine had it and he was turning pro for hockey. And so he said to me I'm about to go and quit my job because I've turned pro. And I said well, I'm coming with you and I'm going to make it really easy for the employer to replace you with me.
Speaker 2:And so this is like a scene out of a movie. He went into the office and resigned and I was hiding behind the door and his director said I can't believe. You're like congratulations, you're going to play pro hockey, how am I going to fulfill your role? And I literally popped out and said I'm here to replace your role. And there's a series of those throughout my career and possibly to your listeners, their careers where it was the relationship that opened a door for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting because in your bio you talk about um. We have to take uh our experiences and our results like uh responsibility accordingly, like your life is your responsibility yes take it, you know, like I mean, we know there's more to it, but we are, yeah, I just I love that. You say that it's about the experiences that you had and the stepping up. So, yeah, so did your friend stay pro hockey?
Speaker 2:He stayed pro hockey and then has had a career from there, and for me the next stage was university. So that was sort of a pre university relationship that opened a door. And then my roommate once again in hindsight, my roommate's brother was working in telecom and he said to me would you like to quit university and come and sell cell phones and pagers that will date me. And I said, no, let me finish university and if we're still in relationship and there's still an opportunity, I'll take you up on your offer. And so literally three years later, lisa, the offer was still there, the cell phone industry was taking off and it was through a relationship, there was an introduction and it just that's. That's that's the ultimate story.
Speaker 2:and, as you introduced your podcast, this idea of personal professional impact- yeah as I was listening to you, I was like, yes, it starts with personal. What is my personal contribution and what do I want to create with others and in relationship with others outside of myself?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I uh. It was funny when you talked about cell phones and pagers and you're like no, I got to go back to school and I wonder, at that point did you think I wonder if that'll really take off? I don't know how does that date us?
Speaker 2:yeah, I didn't know and I was attracted to the glitz and the glamour, oh and and the stuff right. So I didn't have faith back then and I was interested in, I mean, suvs were just coming out and my roommate's brother's name was Mike and Mike had this great SUV and he had a great watch and he had a great pager and he just looked cool Right. And back then I was interested in the surface and not the substance and so I didn't really know about the industry, lisa. What I did know was I kind of wanted to look cool, so why don't I go and sell some phones and see if that will work?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you waited, you finished university, so you got there. Our next question we talk about principles of success and I'm wondering if you have one that you can share, your best principle?
Speaker 2:success. A story that might illustrate that? Yeah, it goes to. There's many, and your listeners would have theirs For me.
Speaker 2:Another Mike in my life is one of my friends. I met at university and I do a lot of work with him and his company. He has 700 team members, 700 employees, and he taught me this principle and it was to take 100% responsibility for your 50% in the relationship. So you and I, you and I have met, we have a quick relationship. Professionally speaking, we don't really know each other and it is up to me to take 100% responsibility for my half of what goes on and to care for the whole thing. So it's never about.
Speaker 2:The principle that I have learned to grow into is to eradicate any blame. You and I had a time zone understanding and, rather than blame you or blame myself, like blame to me is a divisive, diminishing characteristic. I don't think it's very loving and it doesn't solve anything. I find it in my life. It causes more issues and so if I can take 100% responsibility for my interpretation of your text message, which is really our text exchange and then adjust accordingly like, what's our goal together? Our goal together is to impact leaders around the world who get to listen to your podcast. That's more important than our understanding of time zones. So yeah, 100% ownership of my 50% and caring for us, caring for the relationship.
Speaker 1:Wow, I loved how you used our example this morning. So, anyone listening, we had a time zone issue, so we're an hour earlier for me. So I whipped upstairs, whipped up my hair and I was like I'm ready Five minutes. But just listening to you, I was rushing and I was in my mind Now listening to you talk about a hundred percent responsibility of 50% of the relationship. Yeah it, when we got on this call, it was just we're here for a bigger reason, so we're five minutes late, you know. Yeah, so that's a great principle of success and it was that client.
Speaker 2:It was that client. Many of us were impacted by COVID and the global pandemic. And it was that client who phoned me in March when COVID was first becoming an international situation. And Mike called and said I am, I am cutting your contract by 50% effective. And I said Is this up for negotiation? What's what's up for negotiation is we could cut it to zero as well, like, like. We don't know how our business is going to survive as retail is shutting its doors.
Speaker 2:And so, after hanging up, I could have blamed him, I could have blamed COVID I didn't know what it was at the time and instead, the principle that Mike had taught me, I put into effect and it was okay, I'm going to take 100% responsibility for my half of the situation. And I decided to your point, lisa there was a bigger cause here. It wasn't about my income, it was about why was I engaging with Mike and his leaders in the first place? So I decided to continue to deliver leadership, coaching and executive development at 50 cents on the dollar. I just decided that I can control that and that's the reason why I'm in this profession in the first place.
Speaker 2:And six months later, I did that for six months, and six months later I got a phone call from the CEO and he said we have a problem, matthew, and anytime I'm in trouble they say my full name. And so I said what's the problem? And he said well, you've been working at 100%, at 50 cents on the dollar. You, you to backdate an invoice and I'm going to, I'm going to top you back up. Now it wasn't to a hundred percent of the time. That's just an example of I could have blamed him. It could, I could have caused a fracture in the relationship. Instead, I said okay, what can I do? And what's my mission? What's my purpose? What's my vision?
Speaker 1:Good for you. There was a. There's a lot of good stories like that from companies either. You know, the CEO stepped away from his wage to ensure that he didn't have to let his staff go. But when a CEO does that, the staff may go. You know what, when the leadership does it first, the staff will look and go. You know what. I can do it too, so that went on as well. So, but for you to be the first person to take that responsibility because, yeah, it could have been zero.
Speaker 2:It could have been zero and I could have made it zero, I could have made it conflictual, I could have been divisive, and I just know where that serves. Where I've done that in my life, I know where that's the result of it, and the result of it is a broken relationship, and that just deteriorates further, and we're both, then victims of a choice that I made.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'd rather make a new choice, which is to be in relationships, healthy ones, healthy ones with boundaries.
Speaker 1:Are you so just? Are you always so? Do you do you think this quickly, cause sometimes my mind goes to the like I'm angry Do you ever do step back? And I'm thinking of sometimes we're running, we're running at 110%, something happens, and do I, you know? Do you just? Are you like, are you always this confident Because I think, oh, I might. I got to step back out of the situation before I blow up, blow up, yeah, so 100%?
Speaker 2:no, I am not. I am not. And the very first response that I have in every situation is WTF. And that may mean one thing to your listeners. What it means to me is is what to fight or what to flight. So we're wired for safety, right. Ourselves want to protect ourselves. So when that phone call came in, or any situation that happens if my Wi-Fi drops, my first response my wife says I'm like a duck. I'm calm on the surface and underneath my web feeder paddling away. So yeah, my very first response. And, in a leadership position and the responsibility that I've held, the results will come in. For example, or a customer will cancel their sale or we won't get a sale. And my very first response internally is WTF. And I'm wondering who to fault. That's it can stand for who to fault, or and I have an emotional reaction internally I've learned to make that an internal one.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then pause and realize this isn't about me, this isn't a personal attack. Even if it is, there's something greater here. What's my purpose, what's my mission, what's our purpose, what's our mission, and then select accordingly, like, select a behavior, select a response, knowing that my response will have an impact on the situation. So, yeah, I, I've learned and trained myself, actually used instagram to train myself to, to go from being reactive to being creative and reactive and creative. Exact same letters and a slightly different order. So long winded answer to say I get triggered. I get triggered like that because I'm a human being and have emotions, and usually my emotions are to say I get triggered like that because I'm a human being and have emotions, and usually my emotions are to protect me and myself. And I've learned to not act from there because we're called to be in relationship.
Speaker 1:Very good, I'm going to have to start wearing like dark glasses so you don't see my eyes.
Speaker 2:It's okay though it's okay, You're human, right? You probably had a reaction to me saying I'm here, I'm ready for the podcast, and and and how normal, right, and how normal if you had said yes, and please wait an hour, and and I would have been okay with it, Because what's our bigger goal? What are we called to do? Some of your listeners listeners are Christian. What are we called to do? We're called to love. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's great. So this leads right into my my question about failures and mistakes, because I think we all know we learn more from our failures and mistakes than our successes. And I'm wondering I mean, you've talked a little bit about what things happen, but can you talk about a failure or mistake where you learned more and you know, like what did you learn from it?
Speaker 2:And, yeah, my greatest failure and it continues to be less and less and less and less is when I push out others and think I can do it by myself. So in my early telecom career, the industry was taking off and it was successful. As you know, many of us can't put our devices away anymore. It's probably more successful than the creators believed it would be. And I initially was promoted and my ego became a lot bigger than the door of my office and somehow my head and my ego get through my door every day. What I learned was I was trying to do it by myself and Lisa and listeners. I was demoted within about nine months because my team could not stand how great I thought I was. They were like, no, no, we do this together. How come, you think? All of a sudden I was promoted amongst my peers, and it's that can be a hard transition for some, and so I struggled, I was demoted and I was exposed to.
Speaker 2:Well, I chose to look at what went wrong. What, what was it? And ego came up and there's a great expression, or it's an acronym, and wayne dyer uh, is the person I heard it from, dr wayne dyer, who's passed away and he called it edging god out, and for listeners who don't have faith, it can also stand for edging greatness out. So my failures, when I have them and I have them often and we I do learn from them. I actually I don't love the failure, I love the learning. I also learn a lot from my successes and I learned from both. But yeah, anytime I edge out others, others or edge God out, it's just going to be a less than experience and a less than result.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I'm not interested in, I'm no longer interested in living a less than life and less than experiences. I want, I want, I want phenomenal ones. Yeah, so I've learned to, I've continued to learn the lesson of not edging others out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where were you in your life when your ego got? Because, like, where were you in the faith journey when you realized your ego? Like when? Because I don't think and I know you know we'll get into that, but where were you when the ego got too large? And you're, you know you got, let go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was. I was just in the, I was in the dark, I was atheist and had no interest in faith. It was. It was for everyone else, or other people, not everyone else. It was for those who wanted it, and I, I saw it as a, as a weakness, because I can do it by myself. I don't, I don't need, I don't need something that I can't see. I don't, I don't need something that I don't believe in. And and so where was I? Straight in the center of no, no faith whatsoever and really, in hindsight, lonely, insecure and trying to figure it all out on my own.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you had a really nice SUV and a big watch.
Speaker 2:Which led to next to no fulfillment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah Good. So the next question is about that, because at Leader Impact we do want to grow personally, professionally and spiritually for increasing impact. You've talked about this, so I'm wondering if you'd be willing to share an example of how the spiritual makes a practical difference in your life as a leader.
Speaker 2:It makes all the difference in my, in my experience and in my life. It makes all the difference now, because if I'm in, if I'm in an office, if I'm in a boardroom, it doesn't matter where. Where I am, there's something greater available to us. So, you and me, right now there's just yes, yes, we're on a podcast, yes, we're using technology, yes, we're trying to serve your audience, and there's just something more. And when we're in you mentioned as a mediator you know beyond what I want and beyond what the other person wants, if we're in conflict, there's more. And so faith to me is about love, and the word love can be perceived as soft and squishy, and we don't have time for that.
Speaker 2:We need to increase our revenue, we need to increase EBITDA, we need to deliver profit yeah and my from from experience and I'm conscious of saying my all the time um, from from experience, love generates abundance. And so when I get outside of self, when you get outside of self, and we say, okay, what are we here to serve? We're here to serve something greater. So faith is. I can pinpoint on a graph where, having faith and looking beyond ourselves and looking at this incredible gift called life and relationship, what can we create together? And when we go beyond ourselves that answer is yet to be seen Like there are going to be some phenomenal creations when we look outside of just ourselves.
Speaker 1:I think some people think it can't happen for me. I'm not good enough, or I'm not. I'm not sure if you ever felt that, or you know? What does this, what does this have to do with me? I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Those thoughts, I have them, and this will sound, this will sound aggressive to some of your listeners. That's a selfish thought. I'm not good enough, I'm not this, I'm not that. What if I can't? Those are to me, those are self, you know. Once again, it is aggressive. What are my gifts? I have gifts. I've been given gifts. How can I use? How can I serve?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I want to serve. It's. It's once, it's other, it's out there with other. How can I serve your listeners? The difference is what do I look like? It's about me. How's my hair on the podcast? How's my voice? That's about me. Right Versus. How do I show up in a way that serves you and serves leaders around the world and inviting them to, to, to bring more love into their leadership? I'm interested in that, that. That fires me up.
Speaker 1:That's an interesting comment, cause we don't edit the podcast, like I don't edit my words, and sometimes I sometimes words come out of my mouth I'm like, oh man, did I say that and and, but that's just what happened and so we don't edit before that reason. Just it's made to be real, like I'm not perfect and you know this is just going to happen. So I I loved your comment comment about that's a selfish thought and I know you said it's aggressive, but it's, I'm not good enough. That's selfish.
Speaker 2:Well, it's a judgment, and I don't think we're. We need discernment yet. Yet if I judge you, I'm not, I'm not the judge, yeah, right. And from imperfection I like to say you know, we're imperfectly perfect or we're perfectly imperfect. Well, that's where the fun comes. I've had a chance to be an emcee at a lot of weddings and do a lot of public speaking. The joy, the fun came from the mistake. Right, we laughed, you and I laughed, about the time zone, and it builds rapport and there's humanity in it, there's humility in it and trust. I think trust comes from the mistake, and so humility and trust, all characteristics of leadership, and let's love upon our imperfection and go and create something together. I have fallen in love with imperfect and the gap, like the mistakes. I think they're a gift if we can then remember our purpose and our mission and our core values.
Speaker 1:It's a great comment. Got to remember that. So at Leader Impact, we're about leaders having a lasting impact, and as you continue to move through your own journey and it's been awesome to hear about it I'm wondering if you've considered what you want your faith journey to be when you leave this world.
Speaker 2:Hear about it, I'm wondering if you've considered what you want your faith journey to be when you leave this world. Faith to me, lisa has been, and the pastor who's a great friend of mine. Now he and I create not. Let me take that back.
Speaker 2:We didn't create. We didn't create this, it was just a phrase that we use. Faith to me, is about knowing and not knowing. So if I'm about to jump off, we it's summer now and and we have a pier down at the end of the beach, where close to where we live in in crescent beach in vancouver, and I don't know for sure that it's deep enough when I jump. Or I do know it's deep enough, I just jump. Or I do know it's deep enough, I just don't know what's lurking below the surface. And yet I have enough faith to take the leap.
Speaker 2:So my hope for listeners is, and the impact I hope to have for the rest of my time is to embrace the paradox, and to me, faith is a paradox. I know and I don't know. I think I know, not even I know. I think I know and I'm not sure, and I take the leap. I take the leap anyway, and so when things happen in the business environment or on on sports teams, it's like this is good or this is bad. I hope people can leave with this is is like this, just this, just is. And what? Remember that we're here now. What are we trying to do? What's the impact we can have together. So, yeah, definitely embracing paradox, and things are happening for us, even even if it's even if it's awful is it awful or is this actually amazing? And then choosing agency, choosing ownership, language, choosing, you know. Back to the original podcast um personal performance impact how do you integrate what's going on into where you're going next so that I hope that serves people?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think we, we want or we think our religion has to be our faith. Our religion has to be our faith. Our religion has to be perfect and it doesn't have to be for me, it's I, just I have to show up, I show up and I'm learning it's.
Speaker 2:To me it's disingenuous if we think it's perfect. I'm not interested in that because to me it's not true. If if there was a perfect podcast episode, I would think it's manufactured I love, just cause there's what is perfect If there was a perfect podcast episode. I would think it's manufactured. I love just because there's what is perfect, Like there's no such thing as perfect. That's a perspective to have. We can pursue it. Let's pursue perfection and let's not be surprised when we don't reach perfection.
Speaker 1:Right, all right, and our last question for you is what?
Speaker 2:brings you the greatest joy Right in this moment? Imperfection, what brings me the greatest joy? I would say relationships. The relationships with my wife, the relationships with strangers, just any relationship. The relationship, just any relationship. And back to good or bad, any relationship. Because they teach me things. I can teach people things. I'm a student when I'm taught, so, yeah, just relationships to me make the world go round and they make the world grind to a halt. So to me, if we can serve each other, if we can solve, see everyone as a ally, not an adversary, that brings me joy. When I can get in front of groups and engage with people and shift how people see others and have them see that we can all be adversaries for each other, that brings me a ton of joy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I was going to ask you earlier. You mentioned your company name, morco, and you you referred to it a little bit earlier, but tell us, how did you get to Morco, like M? O?
Speaker 2:R E Co. Yeah, it stands for. It stands for more and and just yeah, something greater than right. If people don't find God accessible, they have an aversion to that. Not to diminish God, it can be an acronym of greatly outside definition. Just something more. There's something more. And also, the CO stands for many things and right now it stands for conversation. Let's engage in more conversation, because understanding will come from there, or more consideration. Let's be more considerate of where someone's coming from, what they're handling, and let's look at more options. Let's be more considerate of where someone's coming from, what they're handling, and let's look at more options. Let's be more collaborative as we compete Lots of co's in there let's be more collaborative as we go on our mission, to what we're headed towards. So, yeah, more co stands for just something more, something outside of definition, and let's do it together in collaboration.
Speaker 1:Awesome. I'm glad I asked that question Because I was like what co would just be company, right?
Speaker 2:I don't know more company, relationship, more relationship company, but it's, but it's more than that.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I want to thank you, matt, for just joining us at the last half hour. So I was wondering if anyone wants to thank you, matt, for just joining us the last half hour or so. I was wondering if anyone wants to contact you. Find you, look you up what's the best place to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they can look me up on LinkedIn if they choose to, at morecoca, on Instagram, which is where I found your podcast and found the content that you have, and my hope is that they actually don't necessarily follow me or choose to follow me. They choose to follow their hearts, they choose to follow their faith and they choose to follow their mission in whatever industry and business that they're in.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, I want to thank you for joining us. It's been fabulous to share this last half hour with you. I show up because I learned something and I walk away feeling pretty good. So you changed my day, you changed my moment, so thank you. Thank you Likewise.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much joining us and if you're part of Leader Impact, you can always discuss or share this podcast with your group. And if you're not yet part of Leader Impact and would like to find out more and grow your leadership, find our podcast page on our website at leaderimpactca and check out our free leadership assessment. You'll also find on our webpage chapter one of Brayden Douglas's book Becoming a Leader of Impact. You can also check out groups available in Canada at leaderimpactca. Or, if you're listening from anywhere else in the world, check out leaderimpactcom or get in touch with us by email. Info at leaderimpactca and we will connect you. And if you like this podcast, please leave us a comment, give us a rating or review. This will help other global leaders find our podcast. Thank you for engaging with us and remember impact starts with you.
