LeaderImpact Podcast
LeaderImpact Podcast
Ep. 71 - Ryan Smith - Unlocking Leadership Potential Through Mentorship
Could mentorship be the key to unlocking your leadership potential? Ryan Smith, the visionary behind Unearth Coaching, joins us to shed light on his journey from aimless business graduate to a beacon for leadership development in Peterborough, Ontario. Ryan's story is about resilience and transformation, and he shares how a serendipitous encounter with a mentor not only changed his career path but also ignited his passion for public speaking and coaching. Despite the pandemic's challenges, Ryan's determination led him to continue his mission independently, illustrating the strength in adaptability during career transitions.
Ryan's insights highlight the profound impact of mentors and the nuanced concept of personal success. Through his narrative, we explore how seeking guidance from accomplished individuals can offer varied perspectives and accountability. Ryan emphasizes the importance of defining success on one's terms, sharing anecdotes of mentors who challenge and inspire growth by revealing personal blind spots. This dialogue invites listeners to reconsider their existing networks and explore new communities that align with their passions and values, illustrating the transformative power of mentorship.
We also venture into the intricate balance between faith and leadership, presenting a fresh perspective on integrating spiritual insights into professional growth. Ryan discusses how leaders can draw strength from faith to overcome insecurities and foster a more empathetic, less controlling approach. This episode also introduces the Leader Impact community, offering resources like a free leadership assessment and insights from Brayden Douglas's book, "Becoming a Leader of Impact." Whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting, this conversation provides valuable tools and encouragement for your leadership journey.
Thanks for listening!
Click here to take the LeaderImpact Assessment and to receive the first chapter of Becoming a Leader of Impact by Braden Douglas.
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Welcome to the Leader Impact Podcast. We are a community of leaders with a network in over 350 cities around the world dedicated to optimizing our personal, professional and spiritual lives to have impact. This show is where we have a chance to listen and engage with leaders who are living this out. We love talking with leaders, so if you have any questions, comments or suggestions to make the show even better, please let us know. The best way to stay connected in Canada is through our newsletter at leaderimpact. ca or on social at Leader Impact. If you're listening from outside of Canada, check out our website at leaderimpactcom.
Lisa Peters:I'm your host, Lisa Peters, and our guest today is Ryan Smith. Ryan is the founder of Unearth Coaching, based in Peterborough, Ontario, in Canada. He specializes in refining leadership and interpersonal skills to tackle common organizational challenges such as miscommunication, unproductive conflict, leadership gaps, employee disengagement, and siloed teams and departments. Ryan holds a Bachelor of Business degree from Trent University with certification as an everything disc trainer. Born and raised in Peterborough, Ryan is passionate about his hometown, where he currently resides with his wife. When he's not coaching, you can find him indulging in his love of basketball, strumming his guitar and maintaining his impeccable beard. Welcome to the show, Ryan. And that is an impeccable beard.
Ryan Smith:Thank you, Lisa. It's good to be a part and, yeah, for anyone who's listening they might not be able to see you have to catch the video on that but make sure that it would be good. So I, you know, probably put more work into that than even.
Lisa Peters:I appreciate it. Your bio and if anyone's looking, I don't know if we can tell how tall we are, but it says you have a love of basketball. We have a lot. I have a love of basketball as well, so did you go on to play anywhere else, like past high school?
Ryan Smith:Yeah, I went on to play some college basketball for a couple years, so I enjoyed that a lot and eventually I switched universities because I was doing a change of degree and the new school I went to did not have a team, unfortunately.
Lisa Peters:But are you playing men's now?
Ryan Smith:Yeah, I always try to stay active, right.
Lisa Peters:Good for yo u. All right. Well, we want our listeners to learn more about you. You've got a great resume, so I'm right. Well, intro. So I'm excited to learn more about your professional story and how you got to where you are today, and really we're looking for those pivotal moments that moved you along your journey. So jump in.
Ryan Smith:Yeah, yeah, totally. So I'm a business grad by background and it's funny going through didn't really know what I wanted to do with it. I had just gotten some advice from people close to me of, hey, business is a good area to get involved in, can provide you with some good opportunities moving forward. And so I finished my degree and was kind of bouncing around from job to job just trying to find what would be that next significant career move, if you will. And I had moved out of my hometown, spent some time in Toronto, came back home and then a good friend and mentor of mine he approached me, wanting me to work for him. He had actually started up his own company in the industry and so he brought me in just as kind of like a marketing admin background role to support him. And that I actually didn't even know what coaching was as a field, like you know, coming from sports background. The moment someone said that, I said you mean like athletics or something like that, and little did I know that that had been a term in business circles that had been popular for quite a while. And so he kind of introduced me to what leadership coaching was, and so I was working with him for a few years and then over time he saw that I was really good at certain parts of the job, specifically the public speaking side of it. So I started taking over workshops and leading those. And I really kind of fell in love with the industry. I loved the opportunity to go deep with people. I loved not just in terms of performance and helping organizations, but especially relationships. And there was something about creating a workplace that people love to be a part of, where so many people they might come home from work and just feel exhausted or feel like they're constantly having to deal with difficult people all day. And there was something very rewarding about, you know, helping people find their passion again, so to speak, and actually getting to come to work, thinking of it that way, rather than I have to come to work. So I approached him and said, hey, like I'd really love to learn the one on one coaching side of the job. So he started mentoring me up in that and I started getting some more certification, learning and growing my skill sets.
Ryan Smith:And then I'd say a big pivotal moment, of course, was the pandemic that happened with that and so much of what we did was in-person workshops, and so overnight, probably around 70% of our revenue just got wiped off the books when the lockdowns happened. And of course, I didn't want to let my mind go there, but I could kind of see it written on the wall that eventually he had to really kind of scale back the company, and that meant letting me and all the other employees go. Where he would just kind of focus really he was getting close to retirement anyways, so he was just focusing on the the armchair kind of work, if you will. And so that was a very kind of scary time for me, because it felt like the company had been doing well, I'd been doing well in the role. Didn't really know where to go at that point. And then, after that happened, another HR company who we'd done a lot of work with. They had referred clients to us. The owner reached out to me and he said hey, Ryan, I'd love to bring on your service that you offer. I'm not looking at having employees though, so do you want to work with me as an independent contractor? That was kind of a scary step because I was, you know, kind of new out of school, very used to the stability of a salaried position and wasn't sure I wanted to go that route. But I had some good people in my corner encouraging me that this could be a great opportunity. So went off, worked with him for a couple of years, did very well, continued to grow, and then there was a moment where it would have been a little over a year now that I received a text from the owner of this HR company out of nowhere, telling me that he was going to have to close down the company.
Ryan Smith:And there's some details I can't get into why that happened, but it was not planned on his end. And that once again left me in this similar predicament that I was in years before that of okay, where's the next step, what am I doing with this? And it was kind of having to move quickly because we had clients that were, you know, expecting a certain level of service. We didn't want to have disruptions towards that and they were really kind of left out, you know, with their, with their hands out to dry, like what are we going to do? Who's going to fill this, this gap for us? And so I decided to pull the trigger and start my own company and had to move very quickly on that Because, like I said, we had a certain you know we had some bigger corporate clients. We had clients that you know we already had work on the books for them and so I all of a sudden had to scramble and get this together. But it was so great.
Ryan Smith:Some of the clients we had were super supportive, um, and encouraging to me and yeah, it's now marked one year in October since I started the company.
Lisa Peters:So
Lisa Peters:our last podcast we did with Olga and we talked a lot about resilience and just when something happens to you and you talk about, you had to move quickly, you know cause you can revel or you can sit in the madness. You know, but it's making those decisions. Do you ever think that when you reflect back on your life and you think, as a basketball player, you know? So, number one, you're a basketball player. You didn't learn to play basketball alone, you had a coach. So I loved how you thought, oh, coaching Is that like athletics I'm a huge advocate for as we grow, you still need a coach. You know, for certain things in your life how do you attribute team sports to
Lisa Peters:you know, being coached to where you are today? It often I, because I have such a love of sports and kind of experience with it growing up. I often think of different metaphors in terms of sports analogies, and so, for example, one thing when I'm talking with leadership, with my clients, is I'll make the big distinction between, you know, high performers or individual contributors and leaders that I look at the star player versus the coach. And so you know, anyone who's a fan of sports will know, that the best players rarely make good coaches or executives and often it's, you know, players who sat on the bench or were?
Lisa Peters:fairly obscure. All of a sudden they get to this realm of coaching or an executive position and they do really really well. Sudden they get to this realm of coaching or an executive position and they do really really well. And so I make that distinction that, hey, it's not about how much you contribute individually, but it's about how well you can leverage people and pull kind of the gold out of them right and put them in a place to succeed.
Lisa Peters:And it was funny because, yes, I didn't understand what the industry was, but in a way I did, because growing up I was always someone who, whatever I could learn, I would just go straight to the person who did it well and I would have no reservations about asking them. Maybe sometimes I should have, because I was maybe too forward, sometimes with people, sometimes with people, but because I was the person who was often willing to ask where a lot of others weren't, I learned that often these successful people, they want to give away their, their expertise, their knowledge. They're just looking for someone willing to listen. And so, um, I was able to kind of build relationships with. You know, successful people learn from them. I was just hungry all the time.
Ryan Smith:So I learned, oh, this is what I've always been doing, so to speak. This is what I've always been passionate about. It's just now, there's a framework for it in a business context, and I think it's super important, because a lot of times people think it's what knowledge or skills can they give me, which is good, but there's something about having simply an outside perspective that keeps you grounded, someone who's built that relationship with you. They know you, they know what your blind spots are and what ditches you tend to fall in, so to speak, so they can guide you away from those, and I think that's just invaluable when it comes to to growing, because we we all have those different blind spots, those different habits that we have, and it's hard to pull ourselves out from that. So, for me, having a number of different mentors who I really trust and built that relationship with, who can hold me accountable, who can provide that outside perspective perspective, and then also just the accountability side, just make sure that that I'm following through on things that I've said are important to me.
Lisa Peters:Yeah, um, what advice? So I mean, you're obviously that type of personality. Right, you reached out, you got a question, you're going to the right, you go to the person that probably has the answers. You know, bull in a china shop, whatever you did it, what advice would you give? And I'm sure you coach people. It's like I don't know anybody, I don't know where to go. You know, and I think they do, they just haven't opened it, you know. You know I'll step back and let you answer, but you know yeah, it's.
Ryan Smith:That's a great question Because, yeah, sometimes people they're like I really want to mentor. I don't know where to look. And the first obvious thing is just look at the circles you're in right now. Are you, you know, part of a church, a sports team, a club, your school work, you know what? Think about the immediate spheres where you're, where you're doing life. Think about the immediate spheres where you're doing life, and if you find you don't have too many of those circles, then it's simply get out and try to get involved in groups. And that's where some self-reflection can come in, in the sense of what am I good at, what am I passionate about, what is energizing for me? Things that just maybe other people might feel like they're work, but they don't feel like work to me, and how can I find other people moving in those lanes? What are my values? Those are all really important. So that's where self-awareness, self-reflection, is also really important. After you've done that initial scan of kind of your immediate environment. And another way as well that I think of in finding those people if maybe you are involved and plugged in and no one stands out to you is what I would think of is is there anyone who you really admire, who you look at the values they exude or the way they carry themselves and you're like I really want that or I like that. Or is there anyone that, when you spend time with them, you just almost feel something rub off on you positive, so to speak. You either walk away feeling more relaxed, you walk away feeling inspired, you, you know, you, you feel some kind of energy that you were able to draw off of you.
Ryan Smith:I, I have various mentors like that.
Ryan Smith:There's one in particular right now that he just has this way about him that every time we spend time together, I just I walk away feeling relaxed, feeling like everything's going to be okay, like the journey of an entrepreneur is can be very stressful at times and somehow, like I'll bring him these problems of like what am I going to do about this? I don't have the answers, I don't know what to do about this. And he just has this way about him that I always walk away feeling like I can do this. It's not, you know, the sky is not falling, it's not going to be as big a problem. Or, you know, I have another. I had another mentor who was just so creative and such a big thinker and every time I walked away I'm like I'm thinking way too small on things like how can I stretch myself? So those kinds of people, that's what I would start to think about in the people you want to reach out to, and from there it's just building relationship to the point where you can make that ask.
Lisa Peters:Good advice, yeah, who are your people? Start there. We'll move on to our second question. We usually talk about the best principle of success if you have one and if you have a story that can illustrate that.
Ryan Smith:Yeah, it's a great question. There's a few that would jump to mind for me that are all great, but I think if I was to pick one of the best, I would and it might sound a little cliche, but I'd say that you really have to define success for yourself. So a great example of that with one of my mentors is I met with him recently and he was encouraging me to think about where you want the business to go. You know, what do you foresee? Have you thought about that, ryan? And so funny. And it's not even me.
Ryan Smith:But my mind instantly went to a transactional place of like oh yeah, I'd love to be making this much money. He said no, no, no, ryan, I don't worry about that. He's like but what do you want the business to do for you? How do you want it to function in your life? What kind of quality of life would you like to be living? And it got me thinking about all those things. Because he said you know, finances are great, but that's just a vehicle to something Like what are you hoping to do with that? And that's the real answer that you're after.
Ryan Smith:And it's funny because, no matter how much I've known some of these things. But when we don't define success clearly for ourselves, something else will come in and fill that clearly for ourselves. Something else will come in and fill that, and usually it's a fear or a comparison type of thing that will take room. It's like what is everyone else doing, that's what I should be doing, or what am I afraid of losing? And if you haven't clearly defined what success looks like for yourself, you'll fall into those little traps little traps and and you won't own, take ownership of your life because it will always feel like you're following something else.
Lisa Peters:Yeah, have you ever fell in fell. Have you ever fallen into fear or um afraid of losing?
Ryan Smith:Absolutely. There's times where in my professional journey where I can see different behaviors that I've engaged in, where that was really kind of a poverty mindset or that was yeah, that was me trying to protect something rather than thinking about what. Where you know, what am I trying to achieve? Where am I trying to advance in my life? And, like I said, I think it's a trap we all can fall into in my life. And, like I said, I think it's a trap we all can fall into. And that's even another area where having a coach or having mentors in your life is helpful, because it helps you step out of that first person perspective and look at the situation more objectively.
Lisa Peters:Good, All right. I'm thinking you have some good moving along into failures and mistakes, because I think we all have some and you're sounding like you're willing to share. I think we all know we learn more from our failures and our mistakes than our successes. So if you're willing to share one of them and maybe what you learned from it, yeah, and actually, based on what we were just talking about, this leads perfectly into that.
Ryan Smith:Based on what we were just talking about, this leads perfectly into that, into, sometimes, where you let fear or or um, you know that kind of drive your decisions. There was, um one client in particular where we were planning to do a workshop together and they were, um, they were very picky about the details, very, um, yeah, very particular about what they wanted. And you know, I was kind of outlining what you know, what this product is about, what the service is about, and here's what you can expect. And they had a lot of things they wanted included.
Ryan Smith:And not that I won't ever customize things, but as we kept going back and forth and okay, well, I'll change this, I'll change that, something in my gut felt like this was off, like this wasn't me, and I didn't realize that I had compromised it so much in order to accommodate what this client wanted that it was no longer the product I designed, it was no longer even a product that I was best equipped to deliver and it did not go very well and it did damage the relationship with that client.
Ryan Smith:There was a lot of difficult talks we had to have after that and you know there were some things on both sides that were going on there. But really I think the fear of what if I, you know I need to make this sale or you know they'll be upset if I tell them no off the beginning, that I can't do that and I ended up making all these compromises that I look back and it made me realize the importance of staying true to those values and yourself, and that that will resonate with the right people and that that will resonate with the right people.
Lisa Peters:You know I have a similar situation and mine was. When it was all done, the event actually went incredibly well, but it was not something I wanted to be involved, it was not my values, but it went really well. So everyone saw, and when I had to report on it to someone who actually saw the numbers and saw the budget and went, what happened here, I was humiliated. And I was humiliated because this was not how I wanted to run my business and I was reporting to someone who cared about me and said you know, this is fine, the event was good and here's some, here's some suggestions for you. I was very thankful but humiliated to begin with because the gut feeling I let it go. I let it happen, the event went off, but when something so good happens from the event, you go. It's okay, you know.
Ryan Smith:Yeah.
Lisa Peters:But it's not. It's because all I thought was do I want another client like this one, like, right, you're going to build your business on? So I thank you for sharing that because it just makes me. You know. I look at them as learning experiences, right, like that's what we learn from our failures and mistakes, so thank you for sharing. So in Leader Impact we want to grow personally, professionally and spiritually to increase impact. So I'm wondering if you have a story that you can share of how the spiritual makes a practical difference in your life as a leader and I understand that you are actually a lead pastor or associate pastor.
Ryan Smith:Yes, yes, so good story.
Ryan Smith:And it's. It's funny though because it's it's well. That definitely, of course, has a lot of spiritual involvement in it. It's easy to confuse the two with you know the work of doing ministry, so to speak, and your actual spiritual journey and your spiritual walk that you do every day, and so it can really. Yeah, I think pastors sometimes need to be particularly careful because it's like you're around that environment so much that you can sometimes mistake that. And then all of a sudden you start experiencing challenges in your own life that you realize, oh, like, maybe I've gotten away from my personal, that connection that I have with God and with my own walk. And so when it comes to as a leader, like personally and professionally, I think one of the most important things is it keeps me grounded, especially in realizing there are things I can't control. So you know, one time I heard it put a really good way of living from your stances rather than your circumstances, and you know, even that relates to the defining success for yourself, right. But typically I have an interesting perspective on this, especially in my business.
Ryan Smith:Typically, leaders and high performing people, society we reward them for being impatient, harsh, insensitive, and we call that being a strong leader or look at how confident they are, and there's almost an expectation that those kinds of behaviors are going to be there. But what's interesting is I talk to these kinds of leaders every day. That's the cool thing is I get to spend all my day around high performing people and very successful people and you see that there's actually a lot of fears and insecurities there and anxieties, and a lot of it is this need to be in control that drives them to sometimes lack empathy with their people, because they're just trying to drive a result and push for a certain outcome or goal. That causes them to micromanage, because they just can't rest until they for sure know that it's all been done the way they want and it it's. It's hard to find that balance because even I'm, when I'm working with leaders and trying to help them that way, but I think my faith helps me speak to them in a way. I don't always get to explicitly put it out that way.
Ryan Smith:There are some clients that I get to to share my faith and beliefs in that way, but I know it's coming through anyways in the work that I do with them and my perspective and that they're hearing a perspective that's very rare for the workplace.
Ryan Smith:It's so different in a church where I can completely and openly talk about it that way, but nonetheless I I know that they're receiving of that in some way, directly or indirectly, when I'm working with businesses on it, and so for me it reminds me, and even personally in my own business cause I have to put my um myself in their shoes about the fears of of oh like you know what's going to happen with payroll next, next month, and you know all that stuff that that comes with running a business and realizing that all I can do is come to work each day, do my best kind of partner with God and pray that he'd give me the strength, the wisdom to make good decisions for the business and then trust that the seed is planted and all I can do right is water it.
Ryan Smith:But I really can't directly control when it's going to grow, how much it's going to grow, and so there's, there is a piece in that, but it helps you stay really present and not get too focused on you know what's, you know what's going to happen tomorrow, and so I think that's one of the most important things in grounding me personally, and also the way I get to share a message, so to speak, that typically isn't present in many, in many workspaces.
Lisa Peters:Mm. Hmm, I find listening to you interesting. When you talk about planting seeds as a coach, you said sometimes you can, sometimes your faith will come out, and I think for some clients it doesn't, and I appreciate that. I had a coach once say to me if you believe in that stuff, and I'm like, okay, we're good, we're done. And I haven't seen her since. My coaches have faith, they are followers of Jesus and I go out for that. When I went to your website I had to ask you. I knew by the language you were using that you were a Christian and I came right out and asked you. And then you come up and I'm an associate pastor and so I always think of the language and offending people as a coach. I'm not sure. Are you careful? Is that on your mind or do you just slowly drip, or is there? You know?
Ryan Smith:Yeah, and it is on my mind, especially because they're trusting me with a lot, and so not only and you've probably experienced things like this, where you know you may be working with a client and they're expecting certain things like, oh, we're going to especially with me, we're going to talk about, you know, my employees, performance and my leadership habits and all that stuff, but then it divulges into personal stuff or into more vulnerable things, and so I've had clients share very vulnerable things about their personal lives with me, um, and I also know what's moving in the background and that right in the in the space that helps with that, um.
Ryan Smith:But you know they've trusted me a lot and so at that point, it's me, um, really having to listen to, to Holy Spirit and what I sense and be like is now a good time to share this and trying to be strategic about it. And you know, my experience has not even necessarily been that people get offended per se about it, but you know there might be certain assumptions they have, and so I want them one, I want to build that trust and I want them to know that I understand and that I'm not looking at them in any particular way, because it's so funny. I heard this one time. Human beings, we're so worried about what other people think of us and most of the time they're thinking about what we think about them and and so you know it's, but but you know I, I am very open about you know, most clients.
Ryan Smith:they, they know my, my faith, they, you know they. They may not actually know I'm an associate pastor, but they know you know my church, they know you know my involvement with it and from there, you know those are kind of ways that I plant seed and I know that they're going to sense something's different when we, when we have those times, yeah, um, and so then I've had clients just ask me right after that, after a while, when we've built that trust. But it's um, even talking to them about their business issues is sometimes takes a few sessions to build up that much where I can confront them on things. So I, I think, you know, I think if we were all honest, there's always a little bit of fear over that Don't want to offend people and there's always a bit of a wrestling.
Ryan Smith:We do right. Is now the right time, is it not? And that's where we all kind of learn right, Because even on that end I've also had maybe wouldn't call it necessarily a failure, but I've had times where I've shared and it wasn't the right moment. Maybe I wouldn't call it necessarily a failure, but I've had times where I've shared and it wasn't the right moment and it did affect my level of influence into the person, into what I could speak, into their life moving on, yeah, yeah.
Lisa Peters:And maybe it was the right time. We don't see it. You don't see the big picture, right? We're in the moment of ooh, that wasn't the right time, but actually it could have been'll the rewards will be seen later. Yeah, all right, ryan. Um, we've almost come to the end. I just want to thank you for spending this time. So I got one more question for you is what brings you the greatest joy?
Ryan Smith:Greatest joy. So I, I actually am a pretty introverted person and so for me there is nothing more amazing than a good cup of coffee, you know, alone in my living room with a good book on, you know, on a Saturday afternoon. I absolutely love that. I also love movie night with my wife. She's more of an extrovert than I am. Movie night with my wife she's more of an extrovert than I am, but we both really do enjoy those moments and we will be very intentional with getting a bunch of snacks, that sort of thing. And then I also just love very deep conversations. I love to geek out on different things. I love when me and a friend can just really dive into a certain certain topic that we love, whether it be sports, whether it be, um, the, a TV show that we've been watching, whether it be theology and things about our faith, Um, so for me, those, those are some of my best moments that I really love.
Lisa Peters:Ah well, next time you're in my town we'll invite you over for coffee. You can strum guitars with my husband. We will, um, and you can, guys, talk about your beards, we'll invite you over for coffee.
Ryan Smith:You can strum guitars with my husband we will, and you can, guys, talk about your beards.
Lisa Peters:We'll do all of it, we'll do all of it In one event. That's perfect.
Ryan Smith:Just a whole lot of joy going on, ryan, yeah, yeah.
Lisa Peters:All right. Well, I want to thank you just for spending the last half hour with us. It was a pleasure to meet you and I love when people put us onto two great people doing great things in our country and to meet you it was just a pleasure. Thank you, ryan.
Ryan Smith:Thank you.
Lisa Peters:So if anyone wants to find you, maybe engage with you later. What is the best way to find you?
Ryan Smith:Yeah, so I am on LinkedIn, ryan Smith, and also, if you want to visit my website, unearth-coachingca.
Lisa Peters:All right. Well, I was going to say Ryan Smith is a very common name, I'm not sure how many on LinkedIn. So Ryan Smith Unearthed.
Ryan Smith:Yes, yes. If Ryan Smith and then you find Unearthed Coaching, that'll be it Awesome.
Lisa Peters:Well, thank you again, Ryan.
Ryan Smith:Thank you.
Lisa Peters:All right. Well, if you're part of Leader Impact, you can always discuss or share this podcast with your group. And if you are not yet part of Leader Impact and would like to find out more and grow your leadership, find our podcast page on our website at leaderimpactca and check out our free leadership assessment. You'll also find on our webpage chapter one of Brayden Douglas's book Becoming a Leader of Impact. You can also check out groups available in Canada at leaderimpactca or, if you're listening from anywhere else in the world, check out leaderimpactcom or get in touch with us by email info at leaderimpactca and we will connect you. And if you like this podcast, please leave us a comment, give us a rating or review. This will help other global leaders find our podcast. Thank you for engaging with us and remember impact starts with you.
