LeaderImpact Podcast
LeaderImpact Podcast
Ep. 74 - John Morris - Chaplaincy, Intentionality, and Connection
Transitioning from pastoral ministry to life coaching and chaplaincy, John reveals his struggles with burnout and shares valuable lessons on balancing life's demands. Listeners will gain insight into the subtle yet significant differences between being a pastor and a chaplain, as well as John's unique approach to fostering leadership and personal growth in business environments.
Discover the critical role of presence and awareness in the workplace. We share stories that highlight the importance of intentionality and sensitivity, especially in professional settings. Whether it's providing marriage counseling or helping new immigrants adapt to Canadian life, John illustrates the profound impact of building genuine connections.
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Welcome to the Leader Impact Podcast. We are a community of leaders with a network in over 350 cities around the world dedicated to optimizing our personal, professional, and spiritual lives to have impact. This show is where we have a chance to listen and engage with leaders who are living this out. We love talking with leaders, so if you have any questions, comments or suggestions to make the show even better, please let us know. The best way to stay connected in Canada is through our newsletter at leaderimpact. ca or on social at Leader Impact, and if you're listening from outside of Canada, check out our website at leaderimpact. com.
Lisa Peters:I'm your host, Lisa Peters, and our guest today is John Morris. John is passionate about life and encourages people to live in purpose and achieve fulfillment. He is diversity life coaching with John Morris, providing a down-to-earth approach in dealing with the many complexities life brings our way. Utilizing 38 years in the people business, John comes alongside of individuals, empowering them to move forward in life to reach their desired goals. He's been married for 39 years to Charmaine and has two daughters, Kayleen and Shawnee. John says single or married, top executive or youth in school, we all deal with the same stuff. It's personal at all levels. Today, I'm excited to chat to John about his leadership role with the City of Saskatoon's Police Service and the corporate world. Welcome to the show
John Morris:Thanks for having me. Lisa appreciate that.
Lisa Peters:So I went to your website and I love how, once people get to know you, they call you Johnny. So I'll wait and I'll see how it goes, and by the end I'll be like Johnny.
John Morris:Johnny, johnny, yeah, you know that came from when I was doing my life coaching training. They had you kind of go through this whole what would it be called like procedure of who are you and coming to your life purpose statement, and it was lots of character, lots of play, and they picked up on my personality right away and they kind of likened me to the sloppy dog as an analogy. Believe it or not, it was fun. And that's when they just said you know you need to be called Johnny because that fits more of who you are.
Lisa Peters:Wow See, I would have thought you would have picked up Johnny in a locker room or a right like a sports team. I don't know, Johnny.
John Morris:Well, that all that all takes, takes with that as well. So yeah, yeah, for sure.
Lisa Peters:All right, Well, we will jump right into it. I'm excited to hear a little bit more about how you got to where you are today and really kind of those pivotal moments of you know the 38 years, because you say you have been in the people business. So yeah, share a little bit more.
John Morris:Well, I say people business because I you know 39 years of pastoral ministry right from you know, young, trying to figure out what I was going to do in life and then following the Bible college route and theology and then getting into being a youth pastor. I've been a children's pastor. I've been a marriage pastor. I've been an assistant associate pastor. You know you name it along the pastoral realm I've done it. And just being involved in people and you know as much as I just love people, you know highly relational with all the things that I've been able to do and that's been a key of me being able to evolve into, you know, the various roles.
John Morris:So I was in pastoral ministry kind of hit a burnout time and then was looking at you know what do I do now? And stepped away and then I started to pursue my life coaching. And then during my life coaching, realizing that this is a great addendum to other things that you do, but it wasn't going to be the main thing I did and so I kind of went into general managing a concrete restoration repair company, believe it or not, you go from pastoral ministry leadership right into a company because of the leadership and business aspect of ministry that's involved. And then while I was doing that, life coaching, training, kind of going back into pastoral ministry, but also then this chaplaincy aspect opened up with the corporate world. So a company reached out to me and asked if I would be interested in meeting with them and then so that's been kind of the venue that opened and then it just from relationship, it just kind of snowballed from that. So now I'm involved with four different chaplaincy aspects so and pastoring at the same time.
Lisa Peters:you tell me
John Morris:Just in a church setting where you know there's lots of good leadership stuff that's going on, and just hit a point where just became all-consuming, not maintaining balance, not maintaining those things in leadership that we are taught and we're supposed to, by taking a break you know taking your Sabbath or would rest times and you know pacing yourself and then just getting inundated with feeling overwhelmed and just a lot. Also, you know like you know people talk about PTSD with you know first responders, but in pastoral ministry we deal with a lot of issues and I think over time it was just wearing on me and came to a point where my coping mechanisms were all coped out. And so I got to a point where I but I didn't even realize I was burnt out. So I look back on it now and I call it burnout. But back then I would have just said you know, I was done, you know done and finished Right.
Lisa Peters:Yeah. It's always easier to look back.
John Morris:It is yeah, absolutely.
Lisa Peters:Yeah, For our listeners. Can you just share the difference between being a pastor and being a chaplain?
John Morris:Well, pastor, you know that's the vocational thing of connection with church. Chaplain, and really what I look at it as is you're pastoring people that are in business. You're still doing the same things. In chaplaincy it's really coming alongside individuals and building relationship and rapport. So it's being that consistent presence. It's in the different chaplaincies I work with it's still the same thing. But you know it's just getting interested in people. You know, asking curious questions, getting involved in their families and asking about their kids.
John Morris:What amazes me is I am the chaplain at the Saskatoon Police Service and I go into, I walk the hallways. I would stop in every, everywhere, every nook and cranny in the police service, and I just make myself aware hey, how are you guys doing today? I'm John, I'm the chaplain here introducing myself for the first time, or then it's continued conversations and I'm really good with remembering things. So I'll say, hey, how's your kid doing with sports there? And so these guys are not you know...
John Morris:You walk in and the ladies that are working there, you walk into their office and you see their accolades and their achievements, but right on the wall, right beside all that, we'll say best dad in the whole world. And those are the things I focus in on. I focus on the personal aspects of their life. So what happens is being consistent and being relational is everybody has those moments. They all face everybody, we all face our stuff and we'll hit a wall.
John Morris:We'll, you know, face a circumstance in our personal life or professional life where you know people are just like what do I do now? And then that is when you know, that's when I come in. By building that relationship with people, they reach out to me or they'll lean in a little bit easier. And the consistency in chaplaincy is the conversations go very quickly from hi, how are you? To you know the depths of, you know, hey, I'm dealing with a loss in my life, or hey, my kids really you know pushing my buttons these days, or you know, and and the conversation just really opens up. So you know, if you ask, if you listen, ask questions and listen, people will tell you a lot of their story. And that's really what chaplaincy is is that consistent presence you know of being there, of being available, and then when they need you, they'll, they will reach out.
Lisa Peters:Yeah, would you say that police services, either across Canada, across Saskatchewan, anywhere, do they all have a chaplain? Or is that sort of the chief is saying you know what, we need this?
John Morris:Yeah, I think more and more so. I think you know I become a member of the Canadian Association of Police Chaplains across Canada. Bruce Awanashin is the president of that organization. He is a retired member from Brandon, Manitoba. He actually retired to Prince Albert and I reached out to him and I said hey, Bruce, if you're ever in town let me know. You know love to have you come down to the service. I'll tour you through the building. You know I'll introduce you to different people and I was able to during that time just build relationship and rapport and there is quite a good organization across .
John Morris:You know Canada, you know with you know chaplaincy amongst city police, local city police and RCMP, so it goes across the board and it's become very interfaith as well in many of the different agencies you think it really takes on the flavor of who the chaplain is as well. There's a lot of personality involved in it with connection with people and certain people will have a great in and some does that happen people will find themselves trying to break in and sometimes those circles. You know policing is very interesting. They're very interesting. You know psyche involved in that.
John Morris:first started there you know Cam McBride, who's now our chief, he gave me this book Emotional Survival for Law Enforcement and I was reading through the book and it really gave me a great insight into, you know, the psyche of the police agency and police members and it's been a great in that way. So, meeting with Bruce and having him come, he was quite surprised, how you know. We were walking throughout the building and afterwards he said everybody knows who you are here. And I said, well, I hope so Because that's my goal, right, but I've seen other and been on other zoom calls where other chaplains and other places have had a little bit of a struggle or they're having a hard time breaking in or, you know, because of the agency, for what it is and what they've been experiencing in their agency. So it's, it varies, you know.
Lisa Peters:Yeah, and in regards to, I have never, I don't think I've ever heard of a in a corporation like someone that has someone that will come in and speak to us. That's always the. You know you can purchase counseling or you can have coaching. How did and Reg so Quiring I get it. Because you're a, you know you're diversity coaching. How did you get into being a chaplain? How?
John Morris:does that happen? Total fluke. You know those things in life that come along and you Bitrix company that I started with they had a chaplain and the chaplain was leaving and he just name dropped me and then so they reached out to me that way. So but then it's, it's, it's you got to make your own way in that because it's very individualistic, right. And so that was with the one company and then it just kind of snowballed.
John Morris:I've been with that one company now six years and then from being with that one company, other other business owners will then lean into that business owner and say, hey, I hear you've got this chaplain. What does that look like, right? And a good friend of mine, reg Queering, who's one of the owners of Q-Line Trucking, he has chaplaincy, and so I was very aware of it and at one time way back when I'd been interviewed by him and JNH, his cousin, they kind of co-worked with a chaplain and had kind of gotten a little bit of insight on that. But then this other company opened up and then from that it just kind of went to another company, then to another company and then to another company and it was all through relationship. It becomes really an extension of the wellness program. The one company calls me their wellness coordinator and life coach, actually because they wanted to get away from the chaplaincy stigma, and so what it was is I'm looked at as the HR on the ground. So HR in the company will come along, look after the employees with their systems. Here's counseling, here's this or whatever. You can reach out to this 1-800 number, I become the 1-800 number with the company and as I'm the face to that company, they get to know me and then so when they get to that point they go hey, are you needing this? Here's John. So I've done marriage counseling, I've done weddings, I've done funerals, I've done all sorts of different things.
John Morris:Coming alongside of, you know, the workers in these individual companies. One of the companies, the workers in these individual companies of the companies, bightrix, like e-bikes, is a lot of new immigrants to Canada. So I become the Canadian expert on the ground and they ask me all these different questions. And I'm only an expert because I was born and raised in Canada. But you know, along the way you read, you get educated, you take courses and it's taking all these things that you put into your life that come out in service. You know, and coming alongside of these people, really I look at it as an opportunity. It is to serve. I serve, you know, these people as I serve in the church. I serve these companies and I serve these people, these employees in the companies. ...
Lisa Peters:Wonderful. Thank you for explaining that, because I think our viewers would. I didn't really know about it, but even your definition of sometimes they call you a wellness and HR coordinator I mean I've heard of that, but yeah, so thank you. So, listening to you, I'm sure you've had failures and mistakes and I think we all know we learn... from our failures mistake than our successes. So I'm wondering if you have something you could share a failure, mistake that you could share, story that goes with it and what you learned.
John Morris:She was, I think sometimes it's it's. You know, we always talk about awareness and reading the room, becoming aware, and I I'm usually very good at being aware, but over familiarity sometimes we let our guard down. And there was one time I was joking around as I do, and I banter back and forth with the people as you build relationship right, and there was instance where I said something and I didn't even think anything of it. It's one of those comments we make flippantly, but later on I got an email from a female employee just saying how you know, what I said, you know, was a little bit insensitive, because some people, you know, deal with certain things, and it just, it just caught me up. I mean, of course, I immediately responded back to her and I said I am so sorry that was not my intent, but it reminded me that we need to watch our words and we need to be on guard and aware, and more so, aware when we're in those functions.
John Morris:Aware when we're in those functions, not just to take it so casually, but be very, very intentional. You know, and the intentionality of it is being aware of your surroundings and realizing you're there. You know they're engaging with me on a contract, so they're paying me to do this stuff. Contracts, so they're paying me to do this stuff. And so I want to do my best before them and obviously for myself. You know, I don't want people to think ill of me at all. I'm there to come alongside and help. So I think sometimes it's just the over familiarity of being a little bit too casual and and not dropping that intentionality. You know that that is that is needed.
Lisa Peters:Yeah, when you, when you had said the comment, was made, did you, did ever? Did you feel it? of look around the room? Did you read the room at all, or you didn't? You didn't see it, and maybe this woman emails you. Was it a female? Was it very like you know she?
John Morris:was kind. She was kind, yeah, yeah, she was kind and she said you know, I see the role that you play here and it's very integral and I so appreciate I see how you interact with everybody. But you made that one comment, and it was a comment. I don't want to, you know, divulge anything other than it was very personal to her and and it was me just not being sensitive in that moment, it I didn't even know that I did it. You know, it was a situation where I was standing between two, two kind of cubicle desks and I was engaging with the one person and the other person and so we were talking back and forth and so I didn't even see her reaction to the comment and she didn't let on at that moment. Usually, if I'm engaged with a person, I'm a pretty good read on people, I can see that, but it just was the scenario of where I just wasn't quite able to read that.
Lisa Peters:So know. You comment. Watch our words.
John Morris:Yeah, it's, it's those moments, and you know what they're they, they catch us up and it it causes us to kind of those, those, those mistakes that we make cause us to, you know, catch ourselves up a little bit and go okay, you know, what am I doing, what's my purpose, what am I doing? You know, and you know where else maybe have I done that without really realizing it. And then again, leaning into that, what am I? And for? What am I doing? What's my function? How do I you know, how do I do this effectively? m
Lisa Peters:Yeah, do you live with the guilt of something you've done as much as I do? You know when you do something wrong and you're like, oh, and then you think all these people know, they heard, you know, and it eats me up.
Lisa Peters:I know, you know
John Morris:what, you know what, as I get older not as much as when I was younger, you know, when I was younger, I can honestly say you know very raw, very overly sensitive, you know get hurt feelings easily.
John Morris:Now, you know, in a moment, you know, in our moments of weakness, I think we all default to those things that we have, each and every one of us. But I think as I get, as I've gotten older and I'm getting older, you know what I'm slowing down. I'm becoming a little more contemplative, a little more reflective, not so hard on myself as I look back and I look back on my broader experience of history, you know what I mean and I realize that, okay, you know there will be another day, you know there will be another opportunity. And yeah, I have those, just like we all do. But I look at more of self reflection now in those times and kind of go, okay, I can't do that again, but but again, I'd be a liar if I said it didn't affect me. Of course it affects me, but not as much as when I would be younger, I think.
Lisa Peters:I appreciate that. Because I that? Because when you talk to younger ones, it's like you're going to experience this and I'm on that reflective side, it doesn't bother me as much, it still does, but I think, surrounding ourselves with leaders, that we can talk about it. So for these companies that are doing it, or the city police, they're providing you an outlet you know their employees an outlet to talk. So it's an amazing program.
Lisa Peters:So I want to ask you a little bit about your best principle of success. You know we all have one. We move forward with what we think is our best principle of success. If you have one and if you can tell us a story.
John Morris:Hmm, wow, good question. I think my success is really being able to take all like my life experience, my training, my equipping, my you know, my reading. I constantly read. I'm constantly reading leadership books, I'm constantly reading fiction. I'm reading. I try to stay away from the news as much as I can. My wife fills me in with everything that's going on. I don't need to really look for myself. I try to stay away from the political aspect of things. So I try to stay away from the negative things that will drain me.
John Morris:I'm a very positive person. You know, when I was general managing one company, I would walk in and this one guy, he says, hey, Lucky, how you doing today. And I go Lucky, why do you call me Lucky? And he says, well, because you're always up, you're always upbeat, you're always positive, you're always, you know, engaging with people. You're always.
John Morris:And so I think the greatest thing that I really do have is my love for people. I really do. I love people and I'm interested in people. I care for people deeply. If you would go to each one of these places that I'm involved in my church, they would, I think would tell you that I care deeply for people. I'm a real heart guy, you know, and a big sappy guy. I can cry very easily, and so sensitivity right, but just really taking everything that I am and just coming alongside of people and championing them with what I see, that and who they are, in their value, their skills, their just their value and their worth as a human being, right. So I don't know if that answers your question or not, but...
Lisa Peters:I think yeah, I was just going to reiterate just you know you talk a lot about just using the experience. You've got 38 years of people and if it's constantly reading about people staying away from the news, letting your wife give you that, always positive. We all want to be around people like that and we want to share because you'll make us feel better about our problems.
John Morris:Well, you know what I think too, I've got a gift, and I think the gift is being able to walk into any situation, and I'm not intimidated by you know like, they brought me into a room when I was going to come into the chaplaincy and they did a big horseshoe with eight foot tables and they brought lunches in and we all had our masks on. It was just at the beginning, you know, kind of in COVID still, and then we were able to sit down behind our table and it was like a huge room, it was the community room down at the service, and there was like the chief, the two deputies, there was all these people. I'd never met these people at all, ever. And they're asking me these questions and you know all these different things, and I'm just answering them and I'm quite enjoying this. You know, I'm not intimidated really by this. I'm curious about it and I'm asking them questions back. And then I, towards the end, I said, I said, can you do me a favor though If I, you know, every night I go out, sit in my hot tub, there's, there's this guy that's flying around and he's dive bombing me, can you kind of get him to stop doing that? Okay, well, that just breaks the ice, right? People look at that and humor and just being able to see the levity and the lightness. But then we were also talking about very, very personal and deep things as well in that, and I think that's just abilities that you know God's given me I believe it's a God- given, you know ability to be able to relate with people on whatever level. So I mean that could be a top executive or it could be like in my life coaching. I've coached teenagers. I was a youth pastor for years and years and years and years. So I was a children's pastor, you know, for quite some time. So if they're children, young adults, youth, all over, it doesn't matter. You know, it's the interest in who people are.
Lisa Peters:Thank you for that. So we're on to the last couple of questions. And Leader Impact is dedicated to leaders having a lasting impact. So you have. You have had an impact on so many people and I'm wondering when you leave this world, what do you want your faith legacy to be when you are gone?
John Morris:my, my faith legacy and I I've heard this said and I echo this is you know what we, it's all about family. You know you're going to make me cry.
Lisa Peters:Is this where I'm supposed to inject humor and make something?
John Morris:To me it's all about family and if I've if I've, you know, been in this life and I've I've just been a leader. You know what is it if I haven't been able to lead in my own family? My biggest joy, and my biggest success that my young adult, well adult kids still love to hang out with mom and dad. We do our family vacations together. They're two girls, they're still single, but so, guess what? You know, dad, I need to help me with my car. Dad can you help me with this? Dad can you help me with that? You know mom, can you know they lean on mom and dad quite a bit. My one daughter, she's still. They live in BC and every you know, on her way home from work and her little commute, she phones home every day and just talks with us. You know she can't get ahold of her mom, she phones dad and so you know, my biggest thing is that.
John Morris:You know my girls. You know they're decent human beings and I think that's the greatest thing that I could ever hope for. They're hard workers, they love the Lord, they're apart involved in . It. They're just decent people and I'm so proud of them, of who they become. To me that is a sign of I've done okay. If my girls are still, you know you write things in your Bible and I've got you know things I've written, you know, in my Bible. You know, one day, when I'm gone, they'll be able to take my Bible and read it and I just, you know, I've written to them. You know these different things.
John Morris:Growing up with the girls, I held to you know certain things. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. It wasn't me being a pastor by myself. Apart from anything, it was our family unit that did everything together. The other kind of things is I leaned in is when Jesus said to his disciples greater works will you do than these, and I've always looked at this as I want my kids to do better than me. I want them to excel. I don't want them to have to deal with this. They're going to deal with the same stuff, but if they could deal with it, you know, as a younger age than I did, and get further ahead, being able to wrap their head around those issues of life before I did at my age, or whatever, that's the thing. I just love to see them excel, and they're doing that so far and I'm so proud of them. So to me that's the gauge of true success is that you know, my kids still want to hang out with me as I get older, as we get older.
Lisa Peters:Yeah, I have two children that live away from home, and same thing. They call they text. If they can't get hold of one, they call the other. It's so good.
John Morris:It is.
Lisa Peters:And it's so different than when we were young. There was no phone calls all the time, there was no FaceTiming, there was not Ben, you know. So we're pretty. Parenting is just a little bit easier, a little bit harder, a little bit easier.
John Morris:Yeah, absolutely yeah.
Lisa Peters:John, I want to thank you for taking the last half hour with us. It goes so fast.
Lisa Peters:And I think we can talk, for I know it's like what 30 minutes. I just want to thank john@ for jmdiversity. ca scheduling us in your day. I find it fascinating the corporations that do hire you as chaplain. I didn't know enough about it and I absolutely love it. And I knew about the city police. Saskatoon city police in my own town does it. But I just thank you for everything you do and explaining to us between pastor and chaplain. For our listeners it's been a fabulous half hour. Thank you for joining us. If someone wants to find you, to reach out to you, engage with you, what is the best way to do that?
John Morris:They can get hold of me through my website. It's jamdiversity, and then an email on there. Whatever john at jmdiversityca is good, but it's Diversity Life Coaching with Johnny Morris. That's a John good way to get a hold of me. Or they can get a hold of me through my church. It's Carpenter's Church, saskatoon, and feel free to reach out in any way. I'm an open book.
Lisa Peters:I always say questions are free, right, if you just have a question on how are you doing this, what will be my next steps? Like, just ask, they're free. So, john, thank you again for joining us.
John Morris:Thank you for having me. Really appreciate that, Lisa. leaderimpact. leaderimpact. leaderimpact. leaderimpact.
Lisa Peters:All right. Well, I want to thank everyone for joining us here at Leader Impact. You can always discuss or share this podcast with your group, and if you are not yet part of Leader Impact and would like to find out more and grow your leadership, find our podcast page on our website at leaderimpactca and check out our free leadership assessment. You can also check out groups available in Canada at leaderimpactca or, if you're listening from anywhere else in the world, check out leaderimpactcom or get in touch with us by email. Info at leaderimpactca and we will connect you. And if you like this podcast, please leave us a comment, give us a rating or review. This will help other global leaders find our podcast. Thank you for engaging with us and remember impact starts with you.
