Ep. 97 - Athena Dean Holtz - On Trauma, Faith, And Finding Boundaries

Our candid conversation with Athena Dean Holtz charts a rare kind of turnaround: from high-achieving workaholic to a leader shaped by discernment, wise boundaries, and a hopeful view of redemption. Athena opens up about childhood trauma she long suppressed, the moment those memories resurfaced, and how a 13-year business partnership collapse forced her to ask the bravest question a leader can ask—what part did I play?

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Chapters

• 0:05 Welcome And Guest Introduction
• 1:30 What A Christian Publisher Publishes
• 2:15 Early Life, Trauma, And Workaholism
• 6:02 Remembering At Forty And Seeking Help
• 8:20 Failure, Red Flags, And Boundaries
• 12:10 PTSD Lessons From Vietnam Veteran Ministry
• 16:15 First Steps Toward Healing And Counseling
• 19:00 A Prayer That Changed Ambition To Surrender
• 22:10 Hearing God Through Scripture And Conviction
• 25:45 Faith Legacy And Redemption
• 28:00 Joy, Transformation, And Serving Authors
• 29:35 Closing, Resources, And Listener Invitation

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:05

Welcome to the Leader Impact Podcast. We are a community of leaders with a network in over 350 cities around the world dedicated to optimizing our personal, professional, and spiritual lives type impact. This show is where we have a chance to listen and engage with leaders who are living this out. We love talking with leaders, so if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions to make this show even better, please let us know. The best way to stay on Canada is our newsletter at LeaderImpact.ca or on social media at LeaderImpact. If you're listening from outside of Canada, check out our website at leaderimpact.com. I'm your host, Lisa Peters, and our guest today is Athena Deanholz. Athena is a professional speaker, Christian publisher, author, podcaster, discernment strategist, and creator of the Redemptive Leadership Framework, with more than 40 years of experience equipping leaders in ministry and marketplace. She is the founder of Redemption Press, recognized as a best Christian workplace three years in a row, and author of multiple books, including her most recent, No Longer Hidden, You Cannot Resist What You Do Not Recognize, and her forthcoming, Redemptive Leadership, a framework for leading with clarity, courage, and compassion. Athena speaks nationwide at conferences, churches, corporate training events, and retreats, empowering audiences to lead with discernment, resilience, and redemptive influence. Welcome to the show, Athena.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26

Oh, thank you, Lisa. So great to be with you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:29

It is great to have you. You know, I I have to know, um, it says Christian publisher. Is that Christian books or Christian authors? And what's the difference?

SPEAKER_02: 1:39

Um, that's a great question. It is Christian authors. Okay. So even if we have someone who is writing a cookbook or a business book that's not necessarily spiritual in nature, really that's what we we publish Christian authors. We are not all the books we publish are Christian books.

SPEAKER_00: 2:00

Right. Okay. See, I uh you're you're one of like two that I know of, and uh very similar. So thank you for answering that. And our I think um your publishing company is in, is it in Arizona? Did I read?

SPEAKER_02: 2:15

Well, we just in May of this year moved all the operations and our distribution warehouse to Arizona, but I did not go with it. So I'm still in Washington State, right at the base of Mount Rainier, where it's beautiful when the sun is out, which isn't very often. Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 2:35

That sounds lovely. Well, thank you for joining us today. It is nice to have you.

SPEAKER_02: 2:39

Great to be here.

SPEAKER_00: 2:41

We're gonna go through a series of questions. We're gonna jump right into it. Uh, we love hearing about the professional story and how you got to where you are today, but more importantly, sort of those pivotal that pivotal moment or moments that happen. Wondering if you could share those.

SPEAKER_02: 2:56

You bet. Well, I think back, um, I mean, my dad was a successful businessman, and I just wanted to be like him. I didn't necessarily want to be like my mom. She was pretty negative. And uh so just I had a lot of the same giftings that my dad had, even at a young age, I knew that. And um I just remember this very pivotal moment of when I was around 28, just had my first child, and I just kind of looked at my life and went, wow, you know, I haven't had trauma or anything like that. And uh what was crazy was I was completely out of touch with reality because I um between sexual abuse as a child and a forced abortion when I was a teenager, and then, you know, marrying someone who was physically abusive. I mean, I had plenty, but I had spent so much time just being a workaholic and just always being in what I lived for was my work because I loved it, and so it was a much more of a happy place than all those other places. So it was my medication of choice, work and success, but it really didn't serve me well to kind of be in that space all the time because then I was kind of out of touch with what really needed to be processed in my life.

SPEAKER_00: 4:39

Wow. It's funny that you say uh you when you started off like I had no trauma. And then you tell me about the trauma that you had, and I'm like, Did do you think that you chose um I and I know you said you were workaholic, so that was sort of your addiction was I'm gonna do this because I don't want to think about that. Um like you chose you chose to be happy. Didn't you? Do you think that like I chose not to live with that? I chose to think of a future. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 5:12

That's I'm I'm definitely a glass half full um risk taker person who always sees the good instead of the negative, which and that's uh was traits that my dad had as well. And so there was some of that there, but I don't really think that I um realized. I mean, I had clearly compartmentalized stuff down whatever I did, where I honestly, when I said that to myself, I did not remember any of those things. It wasn't until I was 40 that I started remembering things and going, oh, okay, I got some stuff here.

SPEAKER_00: 6:02

Wow. And you you'd mentioned that at 28 you realized you never had this, but it wasn't until you were 40 that you maybe started making changes or well, it was when I actually remembered something.

SPEAKER_01: 6:15

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02: 6:16

Uh, and then as I did, I wanted to get some, you know, process that and get some help with it. And so just acknowledging it when I was 40 was a huge step for me. Um doesn't mean I didn't keep doing my workaholic thing because I kept going there as it was a safe place for me.

SPEAKER_00: 6:40

Yeah, I can, yeah, I see, I see that. Um we might come back to that in the questions that we asked because I want to ask you about uh your best principle of success if you have a story that sort of illustrates that.

SPEAKER_02: 6:53

Well, I would just say that I came after coming out of a very abusive business partnership uh that ended badly. It was a 13-year partnership that ended very badly, and I set my heart toward finding out what part did I play in that? Like, is some of that something I need to own? And as I prayed and just like, where how did I end up here losing everything? Um, and I realized some things that uh helped me say, okay, yes, I was a victim, but I didn't have to play the victim because there were red flags that I absolutely ignored. There were like I just didn't trust that I could get another author to replace the one I should not have ever published, and that was this toxic person. And um, you know, I should have been able to say, you know what, and draw a boundary there and go, I don't, I don't need to work with this person. I need to just trust that God will bring me someone else to work with. Yeah, and and that was a huge hard lesson to learn because of because of those things, I really lost, I lost everything.

SPEAKER_01: 8:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 8:38

He stole it from me, but there were some things that I ignored to my peril.

SPEAKER_00: 8:47

Um it is so hard when because listening to you, you you believed in God at that point of your life to think how could this happen, how could you do this to me? And I know that's a question I think people ask, right? It's like, how could you do this to me? Um, that's a hard and I'm when when bad things happen, that's the question, you know, why, how could this happen to me?

SPEAKER_02: 9:08

Um absolutely. And that is, I mean, there was a little bit of that in me, like how how how could you do this to me? But then I see, oh, that I'm back like 20 years before that, that God had wanted me to start getting some counseling and get some healing for all these broken areas. And I'm like, no, thank you. I did so I did not surrender that. I didn't do what he was asking me to do, and that left me vulnerable to being deceived by this husband, this guy and his wife, who absolutely just took me to the cleaners.

SPEAKER_01: 9:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 9:57

And it was a hard lesson to learn, but now I mean, I look back on it and go, I wouldn't trade as horrible as it was. Yeah, I would not trade it because I'm a much deeper and more compassionate person now than I was before that.

SPEAKER_00: 10:15

I I think that's uh I mean, that is great. And and just asking, you know, what part did I play? Um, but it it it it's uh to look to look ahead and to just keep moving forward and and accept and ask that question is is a great principle. Like just okay, this happened, what part did I play? And and understand and do the process.

unknown: 10:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 10:37

And what can I learn from it? Yeah. I mean, we need to learn when we mess, when things don't go well, there's a lesson for us to learn. And that I think is the positive way to look at it, because that's just we can get bitter or we can get better.

SPEAKER_00: 10:56

Yes, that's a good one. Yeah, I love that. You can get bitter, you can get better. Well, um, I'm not even sure what you're gonna tell me here because uh I we've talked a little bit about failures, mistakes, but I I'm wondering if you have one that um because we learn more from our failures and mistakes than our own successes. So if you have one and a story that illustrates that.

SPEAKER_02: 11:16

Well, early on, um like 30 some almost 35 years ago, almost 40 years ago, I um was working with Vietnam veterans and their members and uh the and their wives, them about post-traumatic stress, which wasn't even a word back then. It was like in the 80s, no one was, I mean, we were not treating our Vietnam veterans very well at all, let alone you know, recognizing the trauma that they lived with and that was kind of pouring out on their family. And so just learning all that I learned about being triggered and going into fight or flight mode, all the things that happen when there's unprocessed trauma, it was like there that was a period of time where I began to connect some dots and see, oh, I'm doing that, or oh, I'm I'm doing the flight mode. And uh just there was a lot there that I realized, I think because I learned that, even though I didn't do with it what I should have done with it at that time, I learned a hard lesson that helped me to really bounce back, um, look at those pieces, those unhealed places, and really begin to have some full circle moments of wow, this happened way back there, but I'm not even putting it together until all these years later, but so grateful that I could have some answers to the questions that I had that I didn't even know I had.

unknown: 13:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 13:16

Isn't it amazing that you you went and and had a uh you worked with the vets that just that that that's how it started for you to the um the process of your healing? Um I want to acknowledge uh because you talked about PTSD and you know where you saw it in in the veterans, which seems you know right, like PTSD it happens there, but it can happen at work, you know, it can happen when you are working and you have a board that is is angry with each other, or you're working and your partners are always fighting, or you know, PTSD can happen at work, and I don't think you know people realize uh that because it you know, we think trauma, we think big, and it's not so it can be a loss, it could be a miscarriage that nobody even knows about except for you and your husband.

SPEAKER_02: 14:07

It could there's so many things that it can be, and that's what was so interesting about this time where we're trying to help these veterans understand their PTSD, and then we're the wives are all going, wait a second, they do not have a corner on the market here because we got our own baggage that we've never dealt with, and we are constantly getting triggered into overreacting to things that we shouldn't be overreacting to, but because we've kind of kept it at arm's length, it's still gonna implode if we don't move forward with some healing.

SPEAKER_00: 14:46

Yeah, wow. Um, how long what was your first step in healing? Because you started to recognize it. Did you know who was that? Did you make a call? Did you surround yourself?

SPEAKER_02: 14:57

Yes, yeah. I actually did make a call, and actually my husband and I started going to some counseling. It wasn't a great, it wasn't a great fit. Um, so that kind of went on the shelf for a while. But then when I came out of that abusive, that 13 years of abuse in business, I um took some time and spent like three days a week, two-thirds of each day, getting some counseling and looking at all the lies that I believed and then looking for the truth that I needed to replace that lie with. And so it was it was huge, but I still got more. I mean, there's still more stuff that continues to pop up, and it's like, thank you, Lord. I need to, I need to address this, or you wouldn't be bringing it to my attention.

SPEAKER_00: 16:01

And and I I I want to think that you believe you are the person you are today because of that.

SPEAKER_02: 16:07

Absolutely. I would not trade it, which that's the crazy part. People go, you must be kidding me. You do have they got you to divorce your husband, not talk to your kids for 12 years, you lost your$3.5 million business and you don't regret it. I'm like, I do not, because what I learned from that that helps other people is like totally worth it.

SPEAKER_00: 16:29

Yeah. It's a great, great point. Thank you for sharing that. That's it's it's a that's a good point. Um at Leader Impact, which is is the group that we're part of, we want to grow professionally, uh, personally, and spiritually. Uh for obviously increasing impact, which I think you were doing a lot of. Would you be willing to share an example of how the spiritual makes a practical difference, which you have talked about the whole podcast? But if you have an example another example, I do.

SPEAKER_02: 16:57

I had a mentor during those Vietnam veteran ministry days who um challenged me to say a prayer that he said could change my life. Like, okay. What's the prayer? And it was it went like this show me my heart, Lord, as you see it. Okay, that doesn't sound so dangerous. I'll do that. And at that time in my life, it was very early on in me following Christ, and you know, I was just kind of along for the ride, is how it felt. Praying this prayer every day, I start seeing that I was basically in the driver's seat, Jesus was in the back seat, if if that. And the motive of my heart was more my kingdom come, my will be done. I was making big money, I didn't want to let that go. I was very a lot of notoriety and a lot of success. I really didn't want to let that go. And so all of a sudden I'm saying this prayer, and he's so happy to answer that prayer. And the reality of my spiritual life was far from his will be done, his kingdom come. And so it really moved me toward that surrender that needed to be there for me to say, okay, God, whatever you want for my life, I want to, I want to do that. And I want you to cleanse my heart and help me to be who you created me to be. And that, but that that one little prayer was like, it just moved me toward that season of surrender, and that's where he met me.

SPEAKER_00: 19:01

Did um I'm I'm taking a course hearing God, and when when you pray, show me, show me my heart, Lord, as you see it. Did you ever feel God talked to you? How did God talk to you? Because he can talk to you in so many ways, if it's not the Bible, if it's through your, you know, people, places, events, like how did you how did you feel that things were changing?

SPEAKER_02: 19:24

Or well, there were a few places in the Bible that he spoke to me through, like the heart is deceitfully wicked, who can know it? That was one of those. Alrighty then, I wasn't quite ready for that. But then also the scripture that says, seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added unto you. So it was like, Okay, uh, I definitely see that I'm seeking my plan, my will. Had a winning uh however many years it'd been, seven years in this insurance and securities company where I was a senior vice president. So I really was comfortable with who I was. And the conviction that came through really mostly through the scriptures, although I'm pretty sure there were probably some songs, some worship songs, or something in a sermon that kind of also brought me full circle and kind of helped me connect the dots in seeing that I really was not, I really wasn't running after God like I needed to be. I was busy running after my success. And so I think he, you know, he meets us wherever we're at. And the way he spoke to me mostly was through the word.

SPEAKER_00: 20:56

Yeah. I I remember thinking when I was younger and going to church, um when a s when a sermon would happen, and it'd be like, he's talking to me. And so I never realized no, he he's, you know, just that moment was my moment, but it was it was a lot of people's moment. But I I never I was like, no, I'm the only one here who's really hearing this message for what it is. Um God speaks to us. It is so fun.

SPEAKER_02: 21:26

Yes. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_00: 21:28

All right. So at Leader Impact, we're dedicated to leaders having a lasting impact. So as you continue to move through this journey of your life, um, have you considered what you want your faith legacy to be when you leave this world?

SPEAKER_02: 21:41

Yeah, um, I want my family and my team members at Redemption Press and my friends to remember me as someone who allowed trials in this life to refine me.

SPEAKER_01: 22:00

No matter how painful, yeah, but to choose joy in the midst of that.

SPEAKER_02: 22:14

I get weepy, so I mean, I'm just this person that God is so faithful to do what we beg him for, and just a lot of my time in prayer was Lord doing a Romans 8 28 thing where in the Bible, in the book of Romans, chapter 8, verse 28, it says, and we know that he works all things together for good for those who love him and are called according to his purpose. But then if you go to the next verse, it talks about being conformed to the likeness of Christ, that a lot of times these hard things, God allows them because he knows it's going to be something that's going to conform us to the likeness of Christ. And I think just wanting my everyone that knew me, because I touch a lot of people in this publishing ministry, and just for them to have some hope that Jesus could do some of the same things for for them that He did with me. And I mean, I was a Christian hater when I started, when I got saved. I thought Christians were idiots, wimps, they don't, they're just a they need a crutch. I don't need a crutch. I mean, it's pretty amazing who I was before and how God changed me.

SPEAKER_00: 23:56

Yeah, I I I believe I take that for granted because I was raised, not in anything, you know, like church on Sunday was about the hardest core we went. Not we didn't, we didn't do anything else. I'm much different now, but I was raised that way versus not like you didn't believe. And so what a what a great story. Oh, great story. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that because I think people listen and they think, yeah, you grew up like that, you're all, you know, right? We and it's like, no, now I totally get the name redemptive, redemptive press.

SPEAKER_02: 24:32

Yeah, and I, you know, at some point in my life, right before I got saved, I didn't get saved till I was 33, and I had never heard the gospel of Christ. No one, I never went to Iwana, I never meant to, I never went anywhere, so I never heard it. And this lady asked me when I was about 31, 32, so are you a Christian? I'm like, hmm, well, I'm not Jewish, and I live in America. I guess I am, which that does not make you a Christian, by the way. Um, but just you know, I look back and I can chuckle so many times on just the way God allowed me to be wrong, and I was willing to say, wow, I was wrong, and I'm sure glad I got the the scoop on what the real Jesus, who the real Jesus is, and just I've watched him now for 40 some years be so faithful and so loving.

SPEAKER_01: 25:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:42

Oh, it's so good. Um, my final question for you is what brings you the greatest joy?

SPEAKER_02: 25:51

I would say just watching how hard times in my life and how God worked them for good in the end, um, that they end up speaking life to someone else, to those who are maybe looking to him but not realizing how much he is drawing them to himself. And I just look back on my life and see this amazing faithfulness that he has demonstrated that even before I even knew him, he knew me, loved me, and drew me to himself. And listen, if he could, I used to drop the F bomb every single sentence. I mean, I'm that is not an exaggeration. I was I was pretty pretty raunchy, and to think that God would woo me and draw me to himself and save me and let me do what I do, helping authors tell their hard stories and how he's faithful, even in the hard.

SPEAKER_01: 27:06

It's amazing. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 27:09

Oh um I I I love I love this podcast. Like I just love listening to you and and being so vulnerable in your story. Uh there's a there was a lot there, and I think uh I think I think sharing your story is just so important to people because number one, to hear your story and to know that you've you know you from all the trauma, you believe in God. Um, because that can, you know, that's I would think that's hard. Uh I do not have the trauma. I have some that I've worked through, but nothing. So I just want to thank you for sharing that and then sharing, you know, your your normalcy of the life before dropping F bombs to what was I, you know, because I think you're not perfect, none of us are perfect, and God will wait. God, you know, so He will.

SPEAKER_02: 28:03

And what's funny is I mean, that was who I was, just trash mouth, sailor. And I mean, the minute I said, Okay, God, I'm yours, gone. Not one more cuss word out of my mouth.

unknown: 28:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 28:24

And it wasn't like I asked for that. I just he wanted to make a point that he's God, I'm not, and he can do the miraculous, which he did.

SPEAKER_00: 28:37

Athena, thank you for this last half hour. It is it has been a pleasure to to speak with you, to see you. Um, someday I'm coming to Washington State and be at Mount Rainer, right?

SPEAKER_02: 28:50

Mount Rainier.

SPEAKER_00: 28:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 28:53

So come when it's not raining, like July or August.

SPEAKER_00: 28:57

That sounds like a nice time. Um, Athena, if anyone wants to reach out to you, follow up, actually look at, you know, they're they're a Christian author, anything. How can they find you?

SPEAKER_02: 29:07

My website is Athenaholtspeaks.com. Okay. And my the business is redemptionpress.com.

SPEAKER_00: 29:17

Okay, so they can find you for any speaking engagements, anything like that as well. Awesome. We'll get that in our show notes. Well, I want to thank you again for joining us. It has been a pleasure. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 29:27

Well, it's you've been delightful. Thank you for having me on. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 29:31

Well, this ends our podcast, and we hope you've enjoyed our time together. Thank you so much. If you're part of Leader Impact, you can always discuss or share this podcast with your group. And if you are not yet part of Leader Impact and would like to find out more and grow your leadership, find our podcast page on our website at leaderimpact.ca. You can also check out groups available in Canada at LeaderImpact.ca, or if you're listening from anywhere else in the world, check out LeaderImpact.com or get in touch with us by email. Info at LeaderImpact.ca, and we will connect you. And if you like this podcast, please leave us a comment, give us a rating, or review. This will help other global leaders find our podcast. Thank you for engaging with us. And remember, impact starts with you.